doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Non-Tox Shot Woes....

I don't like the "OTLS" designation for lead substitutes, as it sounds like a harmless variation.
I suggest we go with "Inferior shot", or "Inferior shot products", etc, which, describes it's attributes perfectly, and lets anyone in the room know exactly how you feel about it.

Ken, you already had what I suggested, a gun you needn't have worried about feeding whatever. Perfect.

Best,
Ted

Lead is serious stuff, I worked for an abatement company for quite a while and blood testing was regular thing for us.

We still have die offs from lead shot in swans here in the Skagit Valley. Being large white birds they are very easy to spot when they die.

Originally from MN we started using steel in the late 1970's and even with the old slow loads of the day we had no problem with it. Our go to load for ducks at the time was an ounce of lead 7 1/2's over decoys and an ounce of 5's jump shooting so an ounce of steel 4's worked for us. My ex father in law killed 23 ducks with a box of steel shells (he had to swat two cripples)with his old Rem 31 skeet gun. If you just shoot at the ducks you KNOW you can kill and not at the ones you HOPE you can kill steel works just fine.

And yes all our waterfowl hunting was and is still on public land.

Yep, Ted.

It was you who caused the ol'lightbulb to come on....

Regards
Ken

Are you telling us that all of these dead large white swans were autopsied and all died from lead poisoning? And all of this lead poisoning could be traced to the swans ingesting lead shot from the past?

Are you telling us that if we could somehow remove all traces of lead shot that had been fired in the past in Skagit Valley, that your swans would live forever? Or is it possible that these large, easy to spot, dead white swans died from old age, natural causes, disease, crippling after being shot with Inferior Shot (thanks Ted), etc.?

We know lead is serious stuff. We know it can be toxic. And we also know how stable it is in the solid masses of spend shot and bullets as compared with the lead dust from old paint, leaded gasoline, and dust producing manufacturing processes such as the dust produced by lead acid battery companies. The lead ammunition bans are nothing more than a ploy to increase the cost of ammunition. We have read and easily refuted the reams of junk science that the anti-lead ammunition guru Ben Deeble, aka GrouseGuy, used to post here.

Wasn't it the Norwegians who recently decided that the science didn't support a lead shot ban, and unbanned it?
Imagine that, a place where the actual science does the talking, instead of a talking head telling us what it thinks we need to know.

Best,
Ted

I believe they lifted the ban only for areas outside Wetlands. And Ranges.

Now I have an excuse to restore my Grandfather's shotgun.

Ted, even though it was second choice, you always seemed to refer to it as a 'go to' gun. A couple hunts a year, plus the possible bonus good dog work, how much of a set back are those couple of boxes. I've never looked, but maybe there're recipes for 1/2 oz loads. Probably plenty enough for those small birds, especially if the pups are helping out.

I'd rather hunt with the Mossberg, than stay at home, but you probably won't think it's quite like waiving a wand around.

edit to add, If there're dings in the old gun that grandpa might have put in it, I'd rather look at them the same way he might have.

Problem is, we are getting to a point where a "coupla boxes" of some of the more expensive inferior shot loads are worth more than some of the low end guns we could just shoot the lesser commercial loads of steel out of.

For years, I have been hunting the Sherburn Federal WMA, and inferior shot has been required for a long time. My late Father's 1952 A5 has made the trip with a 26" Hastings barrel, and some loading of steel from Wally World, and when my Dad was still around, I have had two Mossberg 500s that can do it, also.

I'd rather hunt than not. If someone wants to put their snoot up in the air, so be it, but, I've never run into that guy in the woods. I mostly don't run into anybody in the woods.
I have a few really good guns, some other 'kinda good guns, and some really low end other guns, and they all have a purpose.

Best,
Ted

That's pretty much how I see it too, Ted. Some guns are "art", some guns are close, and some are just tools (and...I appreciate their utility).

I think we can agree that steel, as well as most barrel-friendly/vintage gun-friendly alternatives, are inferior in terms of ballistics. But I don't think that's true of Tungsten-Matrix. However, it's not the easiest stuff to find . . . and it's clearly way superior to lead, if you judge by the cost.