doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Nutcase that lives to hunt waterfowl

I'll admit I was a fanatical waterfowl hunter from about the age of 12 into my mid 20's when I moved to AK. The area I lived in AK had tremendous numbers of waterfowl and migrating birds, the problem was, they'd usually be heading south by mid-Sept.

I continued to hunt waterfowl occasionally, and had some fantastic shoots but my main focus was big game, which overlapped with the waterfowl season. I hunted geese at Izembek Lagoon, the same year steel was mandated in AK, with a good friend, who hunted everything with a 20 ga. We both realized fairly quickly that the steel shot was much less effective than lead, particularly my friend with his 20 ga. However, IMO, the steel loads produced nowadays are head and shoulders above what was produced in the late 80's/early 90's. Still trails lead in effectiveness, but much better than 25-30 years ago.

Well said, Ted. (And I definitely prefer your use of the term "inferior shot" over that other commonly used misleading term.)

I hunted ducks & geese thru the late 70's and 80's with lead in a couple of different guns, that I mostly sold off in the late 80's.
I kept a Valmet 220 for grouse and pheasant, still have it. I'd got more interested in big game hunting, thru the late 80's and up til around 2003, with rifle and bow. I got interested in ducks again for something to do in the middle of the day, jumping beaver ponds and the like. I picked up an IC barreled 870 for that. In 2006 I lucked into a retriever, over the next couple of yrs, got back into ducks and geese. I used to shoot the Valmet for the most part, but didn't want to mess with the chokes for steel, it is full/mod. Still use it for upland.
Sort of glad I mostly missed that period, as the steel ammo is a lot better than it was. The guns I bought over the last few years are all rated for steel, and the last couple are rated for the new CIP spec for the higher pressure, high speed steel rounds. Granted, I have to use 3" and 3-1/2" to get the same loads as I used in lead, and they are only 120 to 220 fps faster than the lead rounds were. And in the 20ga, 1oz steel loads are about all I can get,and they are only 75fps faster, but, it still kills ducks just fine. I guess a person will just have to see how well the guns hold up to these loads over time. You can use smaller loads in the older guns, open the chokes, use smaller shot, or ITX and Nice shot, but, I see that as limiting myself when I don't really need to. It looks like the mfgrs are coming around to the idea of doubles needing to use steel now, and there are some decent guns out there, if you want to use them.

Gee, I don't remember it the same as oskar. When the initial calls for the bans on lead shot came, they weren't from hunters who were aghast at finding the swamps and lakes littered with lead poisoned waterfowl. The calls for lead bans came from wacky environmentalists and anti-hunters. There were and still are many other sources for an animal or bird to get lead into their bloodstreams, many much more efficient than swallowing lead shot. Go check the price to get tested for lead poisoning, and then ask yourself who was paying for all of these autopsies of dead ducks. Hunters were almost universally against lead shot bans, and virtually all still are against lead ammunition bans. After reading reams of junk science on the subject, including much of what the anti-lead zealot Ben Deeble used to post here, I am more convinced than ever that it is a scam designed to reduce participation in the shooting sports.

oskar makes the claim that storms and wave action will soon cause lead shot to sink deep into the silt, but isn't it strange that it didn't happen until after the anti-lead people got what they wanted... a way to make hunting more expensive and less effective. Yes, there are those hunters and shooters who will continue to hunt even if they have to use silver bullets. But when there are many fewer shooters and hunters left, it becomes much easier and sociably acceptable to restrict our gun and hunting rights.

Sorry oskar, but steel is ballistically inferior to lead. It is not just as good. It is also more expensive, but not nearly as expensive as some of the other non-lead ammo. We often hear about this alternative ammunition being in short supply. Imagine how much more it would cost if demand increases due to more lead ammo bans. We could look back at $2.00 a pop as the good old days.

I shot a groundhog yesterday. The autopsy showed that he died from acute lead poisoning which caused massive cerebral hemorrhage. Works for me.

My Dad's deer hunting partner had a reloading press inside a shed on his property, which, in addition to reloading ammunition, he raised chickens on. One day, when I was watching him reload shotgun ammunition, he told me "watch this". He allowed a lead pellet to roll off the edge of the bench, where a hen promptly ran over and picked it up, and then spat it out on the ground.
Ever since that demonstration, I've had serious doubts about any birds injesting lead shot.

Best,
Ted

Thank John Olin. The Nilo Farms "tests" force fed mallards nothing but lead pellets and corn. And it did adversely affect the ducks. A**holes. Just like most environmentally driven legislation, based on phoney science.
Climate change. Mars has warmed up more than earth over the same period. I cannot believe that one Mars rover is responsible. But, that liberal idiot in the White House is going to do his utmost to wreck the U.S. economy over it.

First I never said steel was as good as lead or was as effective as lead. I said that if used within its limitations it kills ducks as good as lead.

Here's a rather long read about 20 pages on the history of lead poisoning in waterfowl and introduction of non-toxic shoot. Along about page 18 it includes reference to sportsman involvement.

Remember non-toxic shot was in mandatory use as early as 1972 but the emviromentalists didn't really get on the band wagon until just a few of years before the total ban in 1991.

Interesting note that crippling from steel shot in the last few years is at a lower rate than with lead shot before the ban.

Ted my dogs have caught and retrieved many sick and dying pheasants with green breasts and legs from lead shot wounds.

I think geen indicates a little more going on than non-lethal wounding. You can say what you want, but, a steel pellet in a body is going to rust and always cause an infection. Many animals, humans included, go about their day to day with lead fragments in their bodies.

Best,
Ted

Lead fragments? Heck, my grandfather carried a .45 lead slug in his body 75 years without any problems other than a bit of arthritis.

The problem supposedly occurs when lead pellets in a birds gizzard get ground up. That makes sense, but the problem was way overblown. Wild ducks do not eat only corn, and with a "normal" diet the lead would pass right through. But, it's apparent oskar has drunk the Kool-Aid, and nothing will sway his mind, so at least he and I cancel each other out.