doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com damascus shooting

Banc D'Epreuves Des Armes a Feu De Liege (Proof House for Firearms of Liege) appear to have determined a "standardized industry level of strength" for all the "rough forged tubes" that were placed on U.S. doubles
https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA52&lpg

First Obligatory Proof Load for �Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns� - 12g breech plugged tubes
21 grams = 324 grains = 11.8 Drams powder and 32 grams = 1.12 oz. shot

maybe because his drivel would go unpublished in Europe- certainly in the UK

there may be some here that would shoot unsafe loads in poor condition composite barrels- although its my guess they would do the same (or worse) in poor condition fluid steel barrels.

I tend to to move those that talk about the dangers of shooting Damascus barreled guns with smokeless powder loads because they were only made to shoot blackpowder loads quickly out of the expert category.

I only own two Damascus barreled guns one Parker and Belgian Guild gun. The Belgian manufactured a few years before WWI was originally proofed for smokeless. Looking at, and measuring its well care for bores, I'm reasonably sure it may have never seen a blackpowder shell. My Damascus barreled Parker was manufactured in 1924. It was proofed to the same standards as Parker fluid steel barrels. Again its well cared for bores likely have never seen a blackpowder shell.

I suspect; after the turn of the last century manufacturers of Damascus barreled guns knew that the purchasers were going to shoot smokeless loads in their new guns. It would seem even the manufacturers of inexpensive gun would design their guns for safe use with what ever loads were available. Without a doubt better makers of higher grade guns had reputations that they held in very high regard and would not knowingly make a gun dangerous to shoot with the newest and best ammunition available to their customers. By 1900 smokeless shells were widely available and in regular use.

Simple logic proves saying that Damascus barrels guns were only designed and meant to fire blackpowder means someone doesn't have a clue and certainly isn't an expert.

Parker Brothers 1893 Catalog
�Our guns are bored on the latest improved system for shooting Nitros, or Smokeless Powder, and all our guns are tested with some one of the most approved makes, and a tag accompanies each gun, giving the results of such a (pattern) test.�


1895 "All Bored For Nitro Powder"

I do use smokeless loads in damascus or Twist barrels with not much worry about their use. I would however like to make two comments to this thread.
1st; The type of powder originally used cannot be determined by the present condition of the bores. most users of quality guns in the black powder days understood the need for proper cleaning. The corrosive salts left by early primers was actually worse than that of Black Powder. The normal cleaning methods for BP took care of the primer residue as well. With the shift to Smokeless many were negligent in their cleaning. Consequently many early guns with pitted bores are more of a result of early Smokeless Shells with their Mercuric primers than actually from the use of Black Powder.
2nd; As long as an adequate wall thickness is present the actual "Boring" has little to do with the strength of the barrel. Many of the early guns were "Over Bored" for the use of all brass shells with oversize wads which were popular among black powder shooters who loaded/reloaded their own shells. I the early years reloading paper shells with Smokeless was discouraged. Thus guns intended for use with "Nitro" were bored closer to nominal gauge size for use of factory paper shells with standard size wads.
The fact they were advertized for such use of course indicates they were approved for use with smokeless, but the boring itself did not give an increase of strength.