doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Define off-face: Practical application.

I have a gun that a potential buyer told me was "off -face." I am not one to bother with "arguing" if you don't want the gun that is just fine I don't need justification of the reason. But I am shocked by the assessment.
So the gun is an ithaca and the lever is clearly left of center when closed. However with the forearm off there is no play in the barrel lock up. I mean none, not a hint either when twisting one hand on the wrist or when working two hands against each other on the barrels and the wrist.
A 0.0005 feeler gauge will not slip between the barrels and breech balls, again with the forearm off and barrels closed.
What constitutes "off-face?"

To clarify. 0.0005 is the smallest feeler I have and not an indication that 0.0004 would fit.

Off face is when there is space between the breech ends of the barrels and the breech face. I have a gun right now that is off face badly, but the lever is right and the lockup is tight as Dick's hatband.

SRH

If the gun is horizontal with the thumblever up and you try to wiggle the barrels:

If the barrels won't move left and right then it is on face.

If the barrels won't move up and down then it is tight.

As you say, without the forend.

Is it a Flues? You can adjust the top lever left and right inside the action by making a simple adjustment.
bill

Buyer does not know the difference between off face and lever left of center. He must think one means the other. I try not to educate stupid people. They know what they know and don't want facts to confuse them.

"Buyer does not know the difference between off face and lever left of center. He must think one means the other. I try not to educate stupid people. They know what they know and don't want facts to confuse them".

Could not agree more. You can't fix stupid.

Try closing the barrels with a strip of paper between the barrels and the balls. If it closes, try two strips. Typical paper is about 0.002" thick. BTW, I'm sure you meant 0.005" for your gauge strip. As a general suggestion, 0.004" is enough off-face to need fixin'; not that the gun is likely to blow up, but because it is going to get worse quickly.

You can also try the paper strips between the hinge pin and the "hook."

DDA

Mike, I'm not trying to be argumentative, only want to help the OP get the correct understanding he asked for, but your statement that I highlighted in red is not a given. I just now walked out to my shop and got out a Philly Fox A, which has a set of 32" barrels. I assembled the barrels to the receiver without the forend and did your horizontal test. Heck, I shook them every which way BUT loose. There is NO horizontal movement, or movement of any kind for that matter. I know what this feels like when it is there, as I own a couple doubles that ARE loose, but this one is dead tight. However, you can see daylight from top to bottom between the left barrel and the standing breech. It is tight however you shake it, but it is badly off face because of the visible gap I described. I had these barrels fitted to this receiver by a well known double gun smith, and he did a poor job. The off face condition is not from use, but is a result of poor work. Regardless of what caused it, it is what it is, off face.

Again, off face is when there is a lack of proper contact between the breech end(s) of the barrel and the standing breech. If it wiggles with the forend off, and especially with it on, it is loose in the action. Two different symptoms of wear or/and abuse, and not necessarily mutually inclusive of each other.

SRH

Here's a good thread, fairly recent, with more good explanations of the condition, Marks_21:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post401938

SRH

Can you please describe that? I have a Flues with the issue.

Regards
Ken