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Forums10
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Mar 28th, 2026
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231 |
Rio bismuth also comes in 1 ounce/28 grams with a fiber wad. Speed is 1350 fps. Would be interesting to know the pressure numbers on those and the 32 gram load. They may not be all that high, especially the 28 gram.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,224 Likes: 31
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,224 Likes: 31 |
those Rio bismuth are just the medicine in my old HD Winchester model 12......2 2/4 or the 3in.....or the 20ga loads in my 20ga model 12 for when I hunt along creeks where I can jump ducks or pheasant....they are to strong for my Elsies and I have lighter loads for them and my Fox guns, even though I think the fox guns could handle these heavier loads.......wish they had some 16s for the price of those 20ga loads.....but for that price you cant go wrong with those 12 or 20ga loads if you have older guns that can handle them... I'm willing to bet someone over at 16ga.com has come up with a 3/4 or 7/8 ounce non-tox load for the 16. Like said upthread - for the price of a roll crimper ....
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 803 Likes: 97
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 803 Likes: 97 |
BPI has plenty of data for 3/4 and 7/8oz loads in 2 1/2", 2 5/8" roll crimped and 2 3/4" fold crimped 16ga. Sadly a lot of it is with discontinued powders, but there is enough with common powders, 800x, Longshot, Universal Clays and International Clays. Luckily I'm getting old so my stock of PB should last me until more data is available or I'm too old to hunt. Most 2 3/4" fold crimp data will fit in a 2 1/2" roll crimped shell. I just make sure my 2 3/4 data in 2 1/2 cases are at the lower end of pressure. 2 1/2" 16ga left/red - 2 3/4" 16ga fold crimp right/black 
Last edited by oskar; 08/22/15 09:39 PM.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182 |
Don't know how available they are currently, but Kent makes (or made) tungsten matrix loads specifically for CIP guns. Short shells, appropriate pressures, etc. I've got 2 or 3 boxes.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
I never had good luck with the older Bismuth shells and the tungsten matrix from Kent are loaded way to hot for my old double. So I go with the RST shells and found they kill as good as Kent's but without the punishment. I fire off a Kent and I swear I can hear the ole boy's locking system groan.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,431 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,431 Likes: 8 |
Is there a source for reasonably priced nontoxic shotshells or bulk shot that can safely be used in older doubles? I have heard lots of different things about using steel. It runs the gambit from "never do it", "It's okay as long as it is choked no tighter than mod.make sure." "It's okay if you don't use any shot bigger than 3." and so on. I have some LC Smiths that are in very good condition but not collectors that I would like to use more often.
Any thoughts would be very helpful. No. That is the reason I sold all my old doubles. The only thing available locally is called Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles that costs almost $4 per shell. HomelessJoe wrote that is his opinion this is HeviShot loaded to slow velocities. I'm not going to pay more to get less performance. Stan posted links to very good price on Rio Bismuth, but based on payload and velocity I would put those loads in same category as 70mm Kent Tungsten-Matrix (well known wildfowl loads).
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
Phone Kent for pressure Impact 65mm, 30 grams. fibre wad. They're a great load in 5s for most of my duck shooting. I've forgotten the pressure but believe around 8k. The Kent 12g 1 1/4 at 1400fps another bird entirely for my modern guns.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182 |
Phone Kent for pressure Impact 65mm, 30 grams. fibre wad. They're a great load in 5s for most of my duck shooting. I've forgotten the pressure but believe around 8k. The Kent 12g 1 1/4 at 1400fps another bird entirely for my modern guns. King's got the right ones for vintage guns. Good to go in CIP standard proof (old 850 bar) guns. Should certainly be OK in any vintage American gun that's safe to shoot with lead.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565 |
I use these bismuth loads in my two sixteens, a 1949 M12, and my 1959 Antonio Zoli sxs. Not sure if they're considered 'vintage' or not?
Precision Reloading
16ga. Win CF hull 2 3/4"
Win 209 primer
18.5 grns 800x
WAA16 (or Rem SP16 Wad for lower presures)
1 oz. bismuth
Fold crimp
1,300 FPS
11,400 PSI
Lyman's 5th?
16ga. Win CF Hull 2 3/4"
Win209 primer
20 grs Unique
Rem SP16 wad
1 oz. bismuth
Fold crimp
1,250 FPS
10,300 PSI
16ga. Win CF Hull 2 3/4"
Win209 primer
21.5 grs 800X
Rem SP16 wad
1 oz. bismuth
Fold crimp
1,270 FPS
9,800 PSI
BPI load
16ga. Chedite hull 2 3/4"
Win209 primer
24 grns IMR 7625
BPI Z16 wad
1 oz. Bismuth
Fold crimp
1,250 FPS
9,400 PSI
I've shot these loads, and put down many a diver duck, including golden eyes. Fourtunately, I bought 36lbs. of Bismuth when I had the chance, so I'm good for a few years.
D.
Last edited by dal; 08/24/15 10:53 PM.
Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people. Isn't it?
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
I just called Kent.
They have no 2.5 inch shells in a non-tox load.
Maybe I got the wrong person on the phone? Does anybody know anything different?
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