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#428578 12/05/15 11:15 PM
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AlanD Offline OP
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Does anyone know if records still exist for this gunmaking company, who before WW2 were also the UK agent for Smith & Wesson revolvers.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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I don't know who has the records but Nigel Brown's book on Birmingham Gunmakers has the listing of numbers from 1912 to 1928. If you have a serial number to go on I can give a rough date. Lagopus.....

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Lagopus--I have a Charles Osborne with serial number 82102. Would that be in the info you have? I was told once that it was around 1916 but I'm not sure how accurate the information was I was given. I think it was just a guess by the seller at the time.

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gunsaholic, according to Nigel Brown the last recorded serial number before the guns were manufactured by Holloway is 79581 and dates to 1925. After that time the first recorded is 81272 on 1928 and this proves manufacture by Holloway, hence the serial numbers follow the broad sequence of Osborne numbers. An educated guess would be around 1930 for your gun.

All the best

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AlanD, this is what IGC have on them:

Name Charles Osborne
Other Names C Osborne & Co; Charles Osborne & Co Ltd
Address1 1 Litchfield Street
Address2 12 & 13 Whittall Street
Address3 12 & 13 Whittall Street & Sand Street
Address4 12, 13, 14 Whittall Street & 16 & 17 Sand Street
Address5 12, 13, 14 Whittall Street
Address6 10, 12 & 14 Vesey Street
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun, rifle & pistol maker
Other Address London addresses: 3 Broad Street Buildings, Broad Street; 7 Whitehall Place; 2 Great Scotland Yard; 10 York Buildings, Adelphi: Edinburgh address: 47 George Street: Glasgow address: Blythswood Square.
Dates 1841-1929

Notes

Charles Henry Osborn / Osborne was born on 14 August 1819 in Birmingham. He was the son of James Osborn (a gunsmith b.1796) and Jane (b.1796), and the brother of John (b.1816), Henry (b.1821) and Jane (b.1826). The family were recorded in the 1841 census living in Fisher Street, Birmingham. Charles Henry was not at home on the night of the census, aged 32 he was probably married and living elsewhere in Birmingham. In the census Henry and John were both described as gunsmiths but no further record of them has been found. In 1841 Charles Henry was recorded as a gun maker and factor at 1 Litchfield Street, Birmingham. He was also recorded in 1848 as a beer house keeper and gun maker in Irving Street. The 1851 census records Charles Henry living at New Royal Exchange, Irving Street, with his wife Mary (nee Wood b.1814 in Enville, Staffordshire). He described himself as a 32 year old retail brewer. Although Charles Henry described himself as a gun maker, he had probably been apprenticed to his father, it seems his main activity in the gun trade was as a factor (a person who acts as a mercantile and/or colonial agent). It is likely that he never made any guns on his own account, but bought from the trade, in particular from the Ellis family (see below). In 1855 Charles moved his gun making business from 1 Lichfield Street to 12 & 13 Whittall Street which was where Charles Francis Ellis was recorded in 1873 and his son, Charles Osborne Ellis was recorded in 1877. Charles Francis Ellis has not been found in any census and no connection has been established but a Charles Francis Ellis (birth date and place unknown) at some time married a Harriet A Osborn (b.1854). Also, a Charles Francis Ellis (again no date and place of birth) at some time married an Ann M (maiden name date and place of birth unknown).

In 1858 when he was 39 years old Charles Henry Osborne was appointed a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House. This indicates that he was one of the most important men in the Birmingham gun trade. The 1861 census records Charles Henry, Mary and a servant named Mary Jones living at Royal Exchange, 118 Great Colmore Street. Charles again described himself as a retail brewer. Mary Jones was born in 1840 in Tipton, Staffordshire, a couple of miles from Enville (see below). The Royal Exchange building appears to have had its main entrance on to Great Colmore Street and on the opposite side of the building an entrance to Irving Street. Charles Osborne must have had an agent in London, probably from about 1850, but the agent's identity is not known. The firm supplied both London and provincial makers e.g. Holland & Holland with single barrel shotguns, and other gun makers with all types of shotguns and rifles; the firm also made pepperbox revolvers (about 1850 marked Chas Osborne, London) and other revolvers (Chas Osborne's Improved Revolver with Colt type rammer and six cylinders). The 1871 census records Charles Henry as a 52 year old retired gun maker living in High Street, Harborne, with his wife Mary. On the night of the census staying with them was Charles' sister, Jane Terry (b.1826 in Birmingham), Maria Jones (b.1816 in Enville - Charles Henry's sister-in-law) and Mary Jones (b.1840 in Tipton - housekeeper). Although Charles had retired the business continued in his name, and as he described himself as a 52 year old retired gun maker it seems he had sold his brewing business and Charles Francis Ellis had taken over the gun making business, probably paying for it out of profits over a number of years.

Charles Francis appears to have retired or died in 1877, and Charles Osborne Ellis took over continuing to trade from 12-13 Whittall Street. In 1877 the name of the business was changed to Charles Osborne & Co. In 1877 Charles Osborne Ellis and Edward William Wilkinson (possibly works manager and certainly apprenticed to Charles Osborne) registered patent No. 292 for a fore-end which was fixed to the barrel loop but could be slid forwards and backwards by pushing a button. The 1881 census records Charles Henry Osborne living at Birchfield Cottage, Gospel Ash, Bobbington, Staffordshire with Mary A Sixsmith (b.1821 in Stourbridge, Worcestershire) who was his housekeeper.
The 1881 census also records Charles Osborne Ellis as a 28 year old master gun maker living at Greenfield House, Green Lane, Perry Bar, Birmingham with his wife, Agnes (b.1852 in Handsworth) and their children, Charles Osborne (Jnr) (b.1877), Harold S (b.1878) and Kathleen M (b.1880). The family employed a cook, housemaid and nurse. In 1881 a shop was recorded at 3 Broad Street Buildings, Broad Street, London. It may have opened in 1879 when the company were appointed agents for Remington Arms Co, a position they held until 1911.

On 10 May 1884 Charles Osborne Ellis and E W Wilkinson were granted patent No. 8402 for retracting strikers. In 1885 the London shop moved to 7 Whitehall Place and further shops were opened in Edinburgh at 47 George Street and Glasgow at Blythswood Square. On 18 May 1887 Charles Osborne Ellis and E W Wilkinson were granted patent No. 7222 for ejectors, and on 17 August 1888 patent No. 11879 for a self-cocking vertical sliding breech block for punt guns. In 1890 the company took additional premises in Sand Street (no numbers known). The 1891 census records Charles Henry Osborne 72 year old retired gun maker living with the Stokes family at Yew Tree Farm (?), Gospel Ash, Bobbington. He died on 19 August 1893.

The 1891 census also records Charles Osborne Ellis as a 38 year old gun manufacturer again living at Greenfield House but his wife was Mary (b.1850 in Harborne) so Agnes must have died. Charles Jnr was recorded and so were Evelyn A (b.1882), John W B (b.1883), Clement F (b.1884) and Arthur M O (b.1888). The family employed four servants. In 1892 the London shop moved to 2 Great Scotland Yard. In 1896 the company acquired limited liability and their Birmingham address changed to 12, 13 & 14 Whittall Street, with additional premises at 16-17 Sand Street. Arthur E B Wilkinson (presumably the son of E W Wilkinson) was a director. He later established his own business. On 27 May 1898 Charles Osborne Ellis and E W Wilkinson registered patent No. 12050 for their first single trigger mechanism. On 15 December 1898 Charles Osborne Ellis, E W Wilkinson and W Jerman registered patent No. 26493 for their second selective single trigger mechanism. On 16 February 1900 C O Ellis and E W Wilkinson registered patent No. 3088 for their third selective single trigger mechanism. The 1901 census records Charles Osborne Ellis as a 48 year old gun manufacturer living at Greenfield House with Mary and the rest of the family. Charles Jnr was described as a gun manufacturer, Harold as a "clerk accountants", and John as an electrical engineers apprentice.

In 1908 the London office moved to 10 York Buildings, Adelphi. On 3 February 1909 Charles Osborne Ellis and C Ryland patented a boxlock cocking mechanism using coil springs. In the 1911 census Charles Osborne Ellis and Mary were recorded at Greenfield House with some of their family and four servants. Charles died on 23 January 1912 at Greenfield House aged 59. He left an estate valued at 17684. Probate was granted to Mary and Anthony Ellis (b.1866 in Perry Bar, a previously unrecorded son of Charles Osborne Ellis, manager of a nail factory in Birmingham). Charles Jnr may well have continued running the company, he does not seem to have been recorded in the 1911 census but died in Birmingham in 1937. The Glasgow and Edinburgh shops probably closed prior to the First World War, if not in the 1890s. In 1926 the Sand Street factory was closed; in 1928 the London shop closed and it would appear that the company was bought by Skimin & Wood because from 1929 they were recorded 10,12 & 14 Vesey Street. No guns were produced under the company's name after 1928 but it is thought the company survived in name until 1956.

The firm were prolific manufacturers of guns, rifles and pistols for the South African and Indian markets; their range of large bore big game rifles, particularly double rifles, was one of the widest available. The records of the firm appear to have been lost but Internet Gun Club have details of some serial numbers and dates.

Tim

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Great, thanks for the info guys.

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Thanks. Nothing to add to the above. Lagopus.....

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AlanD Offline OP
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Great info, thank you very much.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney


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