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Forums10
Topics40,271
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Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593 |
These proof marks are a bit of a witches brew & not always exactly to the recipe it seems, to me at least.
From the barrel flats I interpret the Diamond 12 C as the possibility of 2 3/4" chambers.
The crown over BP, definitive Birmingham proof 1904 onward.
The crown over BV, the view mark again.
Now the thing is that it has neither the black powder or the nitro powder definitive proof marks. ??
What sayest the more learned ?
Give you $ 400 for it.
O.M
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
The crown over the Scrolled BP on the barrels is provisional proof, the crown over block BP on the flats is the Black Powder Definitive Proof. The 13/1 shows at proof it would accept a .719" plug gage to a depth of 9" from the breech but not a .729" gage (12). The 12/C means it has a 12ga chamber of up to 3" length. Chambers longer than 3" are marked LC for long chamber. There is a bit of ambiguity as to proper marking for a 3" chamber as to whether or not it is to carry the LC mark. 3" chambers have been identified with both C & LC marks.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 606 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 606 Likes: 2 |
British, Birmingham proof, proof marks are not for nitro, and nothing to suggest that they are 2 3/4" either I can see a 3/4 in the photo of the forend retaining iron; has the "2" in the 2 3/4 been cut off?
That 2 on the rib at the muzzle is intriguing...
Nice old gun though... make a good one for ducks with lead when we get a decent season again. $500-$750ish in the current market, depending on a closer inspection with bore and wall gauges.
Last edited by cadet; 12/28/15 12:29 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 14 |
yes there is a 2 3/4 stamp any more ideas on maker ?
I have also now found a hard case for it
old and beat up but is canvas covered and fits broken down gun
Thanks
rob
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182 |
Although the crown over BV indicates 1904 or later, if it's from that era, then there should also be a maximum shot charge mark (1 1/8, etc). And as noted above, no nitro proof mark, which should also be present--although the exterior of the barrel is marked as being nitro proof.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,726 Likes: 129
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,726 Likes: 129 |
James Symonds & Co is listed in Brown's books. In business circa 1894,and Symonds &Hopson listed in business circa 1890. IGC have anything on James Symonds & Co.? I suspect that my Symonds Keeper Gun and ulua's Ideal No. 4 were made by the same hand...Geo
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