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German Rifled bbls were often marked for the "Bore" size by gauge in this era. Is there a mark such as 99.7 or 91.83 etc on the rifle bbl? These were as best as I can determine only checked to the largest plug which would enter in .010" increments, so are not really very accurate, but can tell some. A larger plug would enter a .38-40 than a .38-55. I believe that bullet dia for original .38-55's normally ran about .378" rather than .375" though.

Thanks for the info Utah...

I appreciate it and I am hopeful that I will get everything inspected and in order soon...

JRH

Old .38-55s were really .38s. However, modern .38s are really .375s. This difference causes fits with folks that buy single shots from the 19th century, but that's the way it is. So, your friend may have seen it as a bit bigger than a modern .38 which could be exactly right for a vintage 38.

Also, the modern .38-55 uses shorter brass than the original. There are a few sources (maybe only 2) of .38-55 brass in original length if you need it.

My guess is that you have a vintage .38-55 and your friend was expecting a .38-55 with modern dimensions.

The ASSRA forums are a good place for info on this if you pursue it.

Brent

Piper,

The pictures below show all of the barrel/water table marks. While I know what many of them mean I am sure of all. Any info on the stamps, especially those that are not standard proofs would be appreciated. (BTW, can can anyone confirm that the stamp that looks like a S&S on the water table is the Sauer and Sons house mark?)

JRH

Brent,

That is very good to know. Once I determine for sure this is a 38-55 or not I will looking to the chamber dimension further.

JRH

I had a Westley Richards double rifle in some knuckle-headed .360 No3 case express(raj out of India-Simon said) chambering. It was way too much to get the thing right. You may find the same thing, after the newness wears off.

Lowell,

I knew, generally speaking, what I was getting myself into when I purchased this gun. Fortunately, this is a bit of a hobby for me. To date the only cost I have in the gun is the original purchase price and I am happy to say that I have just watched a virtually identical gun sell at auction for twice what I paid for this gun.

My current plan is to continue to pursue shooting this gun until I find that it physically or economically unreasonable to do so. Should I find that the gun can not meet my desire I will at the very least have gained a good deal of valuable knowledge in the process. In addition, the ability to provide detailed information about the history and physical condition of the gun will add value to the resale price should I decide to part ways with this gun in the future....Either way it seems a win/win situation in my mind...

As always, I greatly appreciate the input I am receiving here as it is already contributing enormously to my knowledge of this fine old guns...

Regards,
Jeffrey Herrmann

Nice old gun.

The "SHUF" marks on the shotgun barrels are a mystery to me; possibly barrel mfg. marks. The crown with the S&S, is the early Sauer proof mark. The "caveman with the club" is the Sauer trademark. My favorite is the little scripted "g" on the watertable near the breech face; that's the mark of the craftsman at the factorty who finished the action. If the stock has not been refinished, you should find a similar but different initial on the buttstock-nestled-in where the pistolgrip and the underline of the stock coming from the toe intersect; that will be the stockers mark.

It would be fun to know who those people were, Sauer had some of the best. Good shooting.

JRH, Nice Sauer Daly drilling and by the sounds of it you did well on its purchase price. By the Serial number, your Drilling was produced around 1886-1887 or so.

When you have the time and make a chamber cast the 38-55 measures out with a .560 rim diameter, .421 base diameter, .392 neck diameter with a overall length of 2.084. It is a straight tapered non-bottlenecked case. Also, rim thickness is listed as .0625. Also and for your infomation the 38-40 cartridge chambering is completly different than that noted above. The 38-40 is a bottle necked case and much shorter in OAL.

Eightbore, in regards to your Sauer drilling and its possible chambering (emphisis on possible here!) it may chambered in the 11,15 x 65R Noted measuerements are as follows: Rim diameter of .518, Head diameter of .472, neck diameter of .467 OAL of 2.559 with a rim thickness of .472. More than anyone wanted to know(!) but it may be useful for future reference.

Jeff Stephens

When a hobby becomes too tedious, it becomes a pain in the neck.
I spent one year trying to get the barrel measured, custom brass, custom bullets made and so forth and so on - for a scad of money noless.
I passed the rifle on to one with a bit of the hobby in him for a not-so-homely sum of cash.
A rare little raj rifle for his guests to shoot....some kind of horned game.