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Lagopus, it was my understanding that black powder generates quite a bit higher pressures then the 3000's. Is that the case?

Edit: I just read Mr. Sherman Bell's article on the subject in the summer 2002 DGJ (found on Ebay fairly inexpensively) which is one of the most informative articles I've read anywhere. Well worth the money to buy and old copy!

Claybuster,
The action body on your fine old Holland gun appears to be the, Alfred Lancaster patent number, 1525 of 1865, less the retractable firing pins.[see page 189, British Shotgun ] The locks and hammer profile are typical of those seen on early Lancaster guns. In view of the patent use number, it would appear that a working relationship existed between Charles and Alfred Lancaster despite the family split.
In the Era that this gun was made it is possible that the gun was bought in by Holland semi finished or possibly finished, with Lancaster's a possible source.

I can't say as it would depend on the black powder load used. Black is a very progressive burner and works well in light loads. I would think 3000 psi with nitro would be a bit of a squib load. Interested to know what powder you intend to use and what velocity is expected. Lagopus.....

Lago, it's straight out of the Hodgdon book- 23.5 gr SR7625, pushing 24 grams (my 7/8 oz MEC bar throws 24.95 grams, about 15 pellets too many), and claims a 1150 fps. Given the gun is 5 lb 13.5 oz, the recoil is still in the normal 12 gauge area.

Well, that sucks. Just heard back from Holland And Holland, they say they can't help me as the serial number on the barrel and forend wood doesn't correspond with the right gun in their books. The number on the trigger guard tang is worn ( or polished) to be illegible. I was looking forward to a better Mfg date and more info on it! But since H&H is a sponsor of the Sourthern, maybe one of their representatives their might have a better idea.

Are records in existence for Lancaster guns?

lago, just a slight clarification - black powder is a low explosive, burning at about 5000 feet per second. Progressive powders are propellants, as opposed to explosives; their burn rates depend on pressure.

DDA

Wait a minute, let me get this straight. Claycrusher, you just bought the gun as of February 15th and H&H got back to you already? Talk about down to earth customer service.

Got to love those Brits!!!

Claycrusher,
Based on H&H's comments and the fact that in all probability the barrels were made after the action,[Choke proof marking was not introduced until 1887];could be replacement barrels or perhaps you have a Burford or Birmingham, Holland?
Unfortunately in the 1880's many spurious guns Bearing well known names appeared on the market, hopefully your gun is not of this ilk
I think you will have much pleasure in shooting the gun despite its vague pedigree.

I bought it about 2 weeks ago, and between the seller being out of the country and the shipping time, I just got it. I contacted H&H about 10 days ago with the serial number the seller had listed- 1277. It's found on the forend wood and the forend lug. They came back saying that number came back to an Apex rifle (a cartridge that was designed in the 1930's I believe) and the gentleman said to get back with him when I had the gun in hand. I did, with the pictures, but he said he couldn't find anything more without a valid serial number.

The barrel rib states " H. Holland 98, New Bond Street, London" so I'm thinking it was a Harris Holland. Perhaps H&H's records do not go back that far.


I didn't think to check the proof and choke marks to see if that helps. I'm thinking it was made after 1862 when the Jone's patent expired

I'd be "EXTREMELY" leery of any load using 7625 @ 3,000 psi. I had cold weather squibs using it at 7,000 lbs pressure in a load taken directly from DuPont's Handloader Guide.

The plot thickens.. If my understanding is correct, these are Birmingham proofs from 1887-1896, whereas the Crown over V on the action denotes London. The action also has the crossed scepters like the barrel has.