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Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
Alex,
A little more specifics please. Do you mean the Syracuse Arms Co guns that are marked Hollenbeck or the Wheeling West Virginia Guns marked Hollenbeck, Three Barrel Gun Co. and Royal Arms?
Dave is being to modest, he wrote an excellent article regarding The Hollenbeck West Virginia guns in the Double Gun Journal several years ago. As for total production for the West Virginia guns there were about 2,000 total production including appx 300 Single Barrel Trap guns based on the Lefever patent. Drillings, Doubles, and SBT Guns were produced at the West Virginia location (Wheeling address, factory "up the river" at Moundville, WV). The drillings were produced in four grades (0 - 3), the doubles were produced in three grades (A - C) and the SBT guns were produced in three grades (A - C).
Differences in the drilling grades were barrels (Crescent, Damascus, Krupp, "Best Four Blade Damascus" and "Best Six Blade Damascus" O Grade was line engraved with stock English Walnut. Pistol Grip and 12Ga. 32/40 or 30/30 only.
Grade 1 Drillings were "fine scroll and game engraving, selected English walnut, any guage and caliber. The Grade 2 had French Walnut, pistol or straight grip, "very finely engraved" with French Walnut and silver name plate, any gauge or caliber.
Grade 3 was "elaborately engraved" - Usually with a deer on one side and bear on the other side of the receiver, with "selected Italian Walnut, straight or pistol grip, gold name plate, any gauge or caliber.
The doubles and singles followed similar pattern with increasingly better wood, and engraving as the grades increased. If you need additional information one of us can probably dig up Dave's canned response in his absence. As for desirability/collector status there are a few of us nuts who like these guns and the do have some value depending on grade, caliber, and condition, condition, condition. One of the problems with these guns is that there were so few of them that many back street "gun smiths" cobbled them up or they are in need of serious repair. There are several on the internet right now, Ivory Beads, Cherry's and one other out fit all had them on there internet sights recently. Regards - Brett Thanks for asking Brett. I was curious about both I saw a few- ill post pictures later. And they had me curious. I'm still trying to find out how to tell the two apart. I found a few for sale and was just wondering about them.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973 |
Topgun, I never did get ahold of the owner of that magnificent gun and decided I probably shouldnt spend the money. Does he still want to sell? I want the gun but cant justify the asking price. If you ever hear that he might take less please let me know. Thanks, Ross/Nebraska ross@berck.org
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15 |
Ross:
As I told you earlier, the owner tells me he has a standing offer of $7,500; but at this point he remains undecided as to wheather he wants to sell the gun or not. From my examination I can tell you it is a great piece, but unfortunately, I also learned the barrels have been cut to 27" (what a pity!). I'd still like to own the piece; but at that price I'll have to be content with having had the privilege to personally study the gun. How's that Syracuse 16-bore A-1 Special trap grade? I'm sure you're still enjoying that piece; have you done any restoration?
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
Ross:
As I told you earlier, the owner tells me he has a standing offer of $7,500; but at this point he remains undecided as to wheather he wants to sell the gun or not. From my examination I can tell you it is a great piece, but unfortunately, I also learned the barrels have been cut to 27" (what a pity!). I'd still like to own the piece; but at that price I'll have to be content with having had the privilege to personally study the gun. How's that Syracuse 16-bore A-1 Special trap grade? I'm sure you're still enjoying that piece; have you done any restoration? What is the gun you two are referring to? No pressure or anything, but I would love to see some pictures of the Syracuse A-1 Special Trap. Alex
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2003
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
WOW. Both of those guns are beautiful. Striking wood on the second one. When can we expect topguns article?
Alex
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
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Researcher stated..."Frank also worked with W.H. Baker in Lisle, NY, and later with Baker and L.C. Smith in Syracuse. Some very early Hollenbeck hammer guns exist marked Lisle, NY." . I wasn't aware that Hollenbeck ever hailed from Lisle. . The new Hollenbeck/Lisle info brings up more questions and certainly shows even more potential for an interesting story......I am trying to gain insight into the hows and whys of how the talent at Mott's Corners got together with the talent from Lisle to found Ithaca Gun Works... . L H Smith was once from Lisle through 1889..W H Baker was once from Lisle in1875...Andrew Mc Farland was fom Lisle in 1887...We know what was in Mott's Corners, a water driven foundry that was later to be known as Losey & Lull. We know what was in Ithaca, a even larger volume of moving water (Fall Creek)...but can someone please tell me what the ??? was going on in Lisle? Lisle is 25 miles east of Ithaca. Especially during the pre-Ithaca period. We know that at at least Baker was active 1875 (in Lisle) through c1883 (Established Ithaca Gun). . Also, I have always associated Baker and Smith with early Ithaca Gun Works, and submitted below is evidence that Mc Farland also worked for Ithaca. I don't doubt that Researcher is correct about Hollenbeck in Lisle, but that means there is only one degree of separation left between IGW and Hollenbeck. Is Hollenbeck associated with the founding of Ithaca Gun Works/ Ithaca Gun Company?  this is my photgraph of a page from the notes of Jerry Swinney Notice Minier and Crass are listed from nearly the beginning
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
Mr.Chambers I sent you an email.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Storms, I have not been able to access my email account for weeks and weeks...today is supposed to be the day everything is back to normal...could you please resend your email...thank you
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
OK Storms...my email account is finally working but there was 75 bounce notices that had to be cleared first...Please resend
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I can understand Baker just happening to live in Lisle in 1877...I can understand Baker founding Baker Manufacturing/Ithaca Gun Works/IGC at the Fall Creek water works site 25+ miles from his home. I do have some difficulties with the apparent concept that perhaps Baker had a daily 25+ mile commute to work every day...50+ round trip...in 1883...(maybe there was a light rail between Ithaca and Lisle, but still that's a commute)...So I figured, Baker moved near Ithaca but still owned the ol' homestead in Lisle was more probable.
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Then two other Ithaca designers/employees/journeymen follow suit ...all in Lisle...McFarland was in Upper Lisle, which suggests that either, Baker may have also been into real estate, or somewhere in Lisle there was a factory or shop....I can't make heads or tails of the info...
Last edited by Robert Chambers; 06/14/07 02:49 PM.
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