doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hollenbeck Guns- any info

Bill, Good to hear from you again...sorry, I don't have much on McFarland, but now that I know that your interested, I'll send any bits and pieces your way..I screwed up his name in an earlier post as Andrew, when I should have said Albert...of course there is his patent, 370966, and this..which is no help at all



Although I have most of Swinneys notes I have not read and alphabetized the digital files, so they are in a state of difficult retrieval at this time. I haven't found time to digitize and alphabetize my old files yet, I dunno when I'll get to the Swinney files....I'm wondering if your ML has a Losey & Lull barrel on it? Should I post a picture of the patent trigger plate gunlock for comparison?...Bob Chambers

Bob, the old man said re: his electric entry into the nascent automobile market, "You can't get people to sit over an explosion." Boy, was he wrong! I don't know who invented the step-thru frame. "Mixte" is French for the same sort of non-bifurcating design.

jack

Reb87...thanks again...I feel less confused...Homer and Tully are very near Lisle...It looks as though Hollenbeck, McFarland, and Baker were brought together partly by proximity to each other. The article by Sue Goodfellow certainly suggests that Baker had an outright gun manufacturing facility in Lisle. I've never seen a Baker marked Lisle, perhaps someone else has. If Sue Goodfellow's article is correct, in that Hollenbeck was employed by Baker and Researchers observation of Lisle marked Hollenbeck hammerguns is correct, then why would Baker let a young employee affix his name to the end product? Some big pieces are missing here...This we know for sure, by January of '82 Hollenbeck was in Syracuse, says patent 258923, while Baker had re-established himself on Fall Creek by '93 according to Swinney. I think it's safe to say that Baker and Hollenbeck had parted by at least 1891.
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the following is an excerpt from a 1924 article about the history of Lisle...the author is unknown..I've posted it because it cites reference to a forge as early as 1835.
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Lisle in 1835 had considerable distinction as a manufacturing town, at that time having in operation three grist mills, twenty saw mills, one oil cloth mill, three fulling mills, three carding mills, one trip hammer or forging mill, three tanneries and two places where potash was made. In 1867 the people of Lisle held an election to determine whether the village should be incorporated or not, the vote being 55 for and 8 against the proposition. At that time the township assumed the name of Lisle, which it has since retained. A re-incorporation took place in 1876, and we find that Lisle then had about 400 inhabitants.
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...My Gun Report collection is no where near complete enough to organize them by year...Gun Report @309-582-5311 said they do have those back issues but it'll take a week for me to get them AND that is perfectly acceptable to them if their articles are posted online for academic debate as long as credit is given if anyone ever re-publishes their information. If no one has the articles, I will eventually post them here for all to read and debate the accuracy. I'm more interested in those early pre-Ithaca guns and factories than Hollenbeck or Baker themselves. The geneology stuff just doesn't interest me, but I'll post the articles as soon as I get them.
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Rabbit...I was thinking Gorton and Latta's patent drillings which do crop up from time to time...patent 417241...but it was Emmit Latta that patented the bike I mentioned...patent 377204... Several of his patents are assigned to Pope Manufacturing...

Have to look at Latta's bike frame. Thankya Robt.

jack

Phail, could you please send that email again...so many people sent emails that my box went fron 82% to 100% full in less than one day, and your last email was bounced...I need a gmail account if someone could invite me over...thanks...Bob Chambers

Robert
I'll e-mail pictures of the MacFarland on Monday- The Pictures
are on my office computer.
Thanks
Bill

These responses and images are from Topgun. He asked that I help with photo posting:

For Homeless Joe:

Joe: The only reference I have seen to an early Hollenbeck hammergun was contained in a 1991 (I think) article by H.J. Swinney entitled “New Notes on Frank A. Hollenbeck” and published in the Gun Report. Mr. Swinney speculates Hollenbeck produced a few examples of this breech loading hammer gun in 1877 and 1878 prior to his joining the W.H. Baker Company of Lisle, NY in 1879. His article shows two B & W photos of these guns marked “F.A. Hollenbeck” and I have copied that page to show the gun (note the unique “3rd” trigger that breaks open the gun).



For StormGSP:

Glad to know of your interest in Hollenbeck and his guns. I had waited in hopes someone would post photos (since I don’t know how) of a Hollenbeck Gun Company gun; but since that hasn’t happened, I am forwarding photos an early example, double gun #215. One will likely see 10-12 Hollenbeck drillings for every one example seen of a Hollenbeck Gun Co side x side. I don’t have any photos of the Hollenbeck drilling; but two examples can be seen on the Ivory Beads web site. The profiles of those models are easy to ID by the rifle barrel cocking lever/trigger device in from of the trigger guard. At any rate, these guns are very interesting; and represent, I believe anyway, the very best of the few examples of American made drillings we have from that era.

You had also asked that someone post photos of the SAC A-1 Special Trap Grade, and I have attached some pix from an example formerly at Ivory Beads. This model was produced from 1902-1904; kinda makes one wonder if Parker may have “borrowed” SAC’s A-1 Special moniker when they introduced their flagship grade, huh?

Finally, as to any article on the Hollenbeck/Syracuse Arms prototype gun; all I can do is prepare the article. I have no control over when, or even if Mr. Cote’ will choose to use and publish the article. After seeing some comments on this forum by posters stating they were sick and tired of seeing Syracuse Arms DGJ articles, it is entirely possible Dan Cote’ has the same opinion; we’ll just have to see what happens, but thanks again for your interest.



For Reb87

Ross: I apologize for remembering your gun as an A-1 instead of a Grade B. In my opinion it could be the best engraved late production Grade B SAC gun I have seen. When you get tired of owning that gun, I’d appreciate a call. As FYI, the carving behind the check panel is a feature that is not common to the SAC Grade B; and I have only seen that feature on one other example below Grade C; an example also grade marked “B”, but engraved in the style of an A-1 with birds on the frame sides instead of a dog. By the way, I have recorded approximately 25 Grade B SAC guns to date and have yet to find an example with the optional Krupp barrels; they have all been Damascus. I have attached some photos of a late production Grade B gun that you might enjoy (and I hope to personally see some day).

From Topgun.

Images in next post

Photos from Topgun:
A1 Grade:
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]

D Grade:
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]

Sorry for the links instead of photos I believe it's because the images are small and must be rendered, but I'm not sure. More to follow.

More from Topgun:
Hollenbeck 215:
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,590,442[/img]
Hollenbeck Hammergun:
[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,320,442[/img]

Way cool!! Thanks Tom and Harry! The actuator pin thru the barrel lug on that Hollenbeck Gun Co. B-Grade double serial number 215 is slightly differnt than I've seen on other Hollenbeck/Three-Barrel/Royal Gun Co. doubles. Most I've examined don't have that little sliding rectangular bit at the front of the lug. That certainly made for an extra bit of fitting work to the notch in the lug and the receiver.