doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Smoothness of Cocking, Cocking effort

I shot a "Best" 28ga a few weeks ago, and didn't like it.
The places in the cocking cycle that maximum effort was required for cocking or loading the self opening mechanism, were in cumbersome spots for me. I felt like I was breaking firewood at a low angle.
During the points in the cocking cycle of maximum friction, I could feel parts rubbing each other. Vibration sent back through the cocking mechanism, and felt through the barrels.

Since then, I have been going through my shotguns, and have been examining the cocking cycles, and how they feel during cocking.

I like a shotgun that cocks with the barrels deeply opened, that has a solid cocking stop, and that doesn't grind or vibrate it's mechanism in cocking.
I found that the spring rollers on one shotgun were dry, and pitted, and that roughness was transferring to my hands on cocking.
That is what got me thinking about this.

I believe cocking effort, degree of opening, and smoothness of cocking are quantifiable.
While it is the weekend of the Southern, I believe there may be a few of a more mechanical bent that wish to share their thoughts on the cocking cycle.

Which guns cock most smoothly after both barrels have been shot?

What kind of best was it that you did not enjoy shooting? I am relatively limited in my experience shooting different makes of best guns. I have shot a couple of rounds of trap with a friends Purdey Beesley action and I own a Holland self-opener. I find my Holland a joy to shoot and do not notice it being stiff to cock despite compressing 3 springs at once. Of course the locks cock on opening and it is the ejectors and self opener spring that is compressed by closing the barrels. It was some time ago I shot the Purdey and I was tickled that I seemed to crush most birds with it so I may have completely overlooked the cocking aspect....that and being enamored by my friends personal shooting grounds. Not a bad thing having wealthy friends.

I think it was Gene Hill who said when he commented to Purdey the gun he was looking at was stiff to close

and said the reply was "our customers don't close their own guns"

My experience with London Best is very limited (having owned just one), and as to self-openers, just a Purdey 16 a very gracious friend let us shoot at the gun club. Did not like it, but
perhaps just not used to so much resistance when working the barrels.

I have found, to me, the most ergonomically friendly action to be my Manufrance Ideals: the human index finger is quite strong and agile, and cocking the gun upon pulling the "underlever" seems effortless, with the barrels dropping and then closing like they are gliding on glass.

My subjective experience, nothing more, and no comparison between London and St. Etienne expressed or implied.

Mike

One of the big three.
The gun is almost flat when you have to overcome spring tension to close it. With no leverage, such a small delicate firearm feels like you'll break it in half at that moment. Of course you won't.

I've been thinking about cocking cycles for years. It's one of the nerdy bits about shotguns we've never hashed over here.

I picked a poor weekend to start the discussion.

It would be wonderful to have a list of at what degree of down do typical designs complete their cocking. And at what load.

On the mechanic end, it would be nice to go over all the little parts that can be polished without fear to smooth out cocking mechanisms.

Just trying to spur content toward mechanicals, and away from non essentials.

Funny you should mention the Manufrance in this discussion. Since I have no best guns on which to comment, I'll respond to your post about the Ideal action. Mine is really smooth, as you say when I've only shot one barrel. However when you shoot both barrels the finger lever has to cock two mainsprings at once. I usually turn the gun over and push down the underlever with my thumb. Just my experience...Geo

With very limited experience, I think a self opening feature is nonessential for most shooting, but essential for other reasons. Seems to me like it's an action that's best operated 'sharply', admittedly not the easiest thing to do when trying to tiptoe for a few shots with someone else's best gun. If the maker signed off on the gun, to me the ideal thing would be to have snap cap practice time in private so that the routine becomes second nature rather than tweak the gun to try to feel like another.

A side plate Lefever is about the smoothest operating gun I have. Bobby

I have found my extractor Lefevers to be quite smooth cocking with little effort. Those with in-frame ejectors though power the ejectors by the upper arm of the main spring. On opening you are cocking both the hammers & the ejectors so cocking is a bit stiffer on those. I do appreciate the fact though the ejectors are not being cocked by the ejectors being pushed in by the breech face in closing. There seems to be much less friction involved in cocking the ejectors on the Lefever than that of rubbing them down the breech face.

Geo,
I have quite large hands, and make my living with them, so I have to say that I have never been conscious of the difference when cocking/opening after one or both barrels fired, but the point is well taken. The OP did mention best guns (and I related my very limited existential encounters), but also seemed to open the topic to smooth actions in general; thus my mention of the Manufrance.

Have a great weekend,
Mike