doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two (2) Shotgun Formulas

Going back to Brister, he stresses the important difference in shot string between loads using hard vs soft shot. Here, I think, is where we come to the difference between the impact of deformation on a smallbore vs a 12ga. As noted, the obvious advantage of the 12 is that it can push a bigger load. Thus a heavier load with soft shot might perform as well as the lighter load of a smallbore with hard shot. But if you use soft shot in a smallbore, where you have fewer pellets to start with, then you're going to see more impact. I'd say that using quality loads with good components is more important when you're pushing less than an ounce of shot than when you're pushing 1 1/8 or more. Or at least that seems logical to me.

This has to me at least been a very enjoyable discussion. now let me throw out one more little tid-bit for thought.
A .410" firing 11/32oz; a 28 with 5/8oz; a 20 with 3/4oz; a 16 with 7/8oz; a 12 with 1 1/8oz & a 10 with 1 1/4oz.
Anyone want to make a guess as to what all these loads have in common.

Common aspect ratio?

DDA

Ding Ding, A winner!

Sorry, Don. It was too hard not to do that;-)

Right on; within a narrow range these loads all have near the same column length in a nominal size bore. It is also noted that these are pretty much what the standard loads were a decade or so either side of 1900 when powder was limited to black or the early Smokeless which all burned at similar rates.
As stated in a previous post it was the development of progressive shotshell powders beginning in the 1920'that allowed the smaller bores to be "Loaded Up" to heavier charges.

Bob Nichols, Editor, Arms and Ammunition Dept., Field & Stream in a letter dated Oct 1, 1940:

As regards the 16-gauge, I think the English loaders for a long time recommended 15/16 of an ounce of shot as being about as much as the 16 could handle with "good grace." I still think the 1 1/8-ounce maximum load in the 16-gauge is a cock-eyed load- because I don't see any sense in having the 16-gauge weigh more than 6 pounds- or 6 1/4 pounds at the most- and believe me, the 1 1/8 ounce load in front of 3 drams equivalent modern smokeless powder is just too heavy in recoil for the 6-pound gun.

Dr, I am afraid I must disagree. For targets 1 oz is a fair limit for a 6lb sixteen, but for game (pheasant) I often shoot 1 1/8 and occasionally 1 1 1/4 out of my medium weight 16 (6lb).

I believe the classic rule of 96 to 1 applies for sustained shooting, half a dozen heavier loads every now and again will not kill you.

PS on clays I normally shoot 7/8ths

I have fired factory 3" 1� oz loads from a 6� lb 20 gauge as well as handloaded low velocity 1� oz loads from a 16ga which was 2oz under 6lb. I would want to use neither for continuous firing but for spaced out shots in many hunting situations they were not at all uncomfortable.
Over the years I did seem to do some of my best shooting in the hunting field with guns in a 6�lb-7lb range. In this weight range the normal 3-1 1/8 loads were quite comfortable & up to 3�-1� were no problem. In a 12ga of at least 6 3/4lb I had no problem with the 3 3/4-1� loads.

One reason the Brits focused on lighter loads for the 16ga: 2 1/2" chambers. That being said, even when the standard chamber length for the 16ga in this country was 2 9/16", a 1 1/8 oz load was available. And in 1940, the conversion from 2 9/16" to 2 3/4" chambers as standard had only taken place very recently. But our 16's, in general, have always been built heavier than Brit 16's. It's a pretty rare American 16 that weighs much under 6#.

My first classic double was a pre-WWII Sauer 16. I never put that gun on a scale, but I doubt it went much over 6#. Had the chambers punched to 2 3/4" (LONG before I knew better) and shot a whole lot of pheasants with that gun, mostly with the high brass 3 DE, 1 1/8 oz loads. Didn't shoot a lot of targets back then, but when I did, I reloaded the standard 1 oz formula for the 16. Not at all unpleasant for a couple rounds of skeet.