doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wild Birds vs. Game Preserves

The golden age of small game here in the East coincided with "dirty" farming and lots of "predator" control. Here in NC it was the small share cropper farms, the field seperating hedge rows, grandma shooting the "chicken hawks" to protect her egg money, the killing of 'coons and 'possums and fox for fur and/or food, and the shooting of any poisonous snake. The very best comment I've ever read on the issue came out several years ago from the Tall Timber Research folks in Florida, "WE will never have good numbers of quail(small game) again until we start managing them as an economic commodity". Now the challenge/question is how do we mobilize our numbers into a viable political force? We must become the "squeaky wheel" just like the turkey, deer, bear, big game folks. Otherwise were just "preachin' to the choir". Best, DR. BILL

Nope, it doesn't have to cost anything like that much to do it right. Sure, sometimes it does cost a lot because of presentation and some marketing, but it really doesn't always have to.

Some of the "I'm too special to hunt preserves" guys need to realize just how vital and important preserve hunting is to our upland hunting sport.

Yesirree, nothing is better than wild upland birds. It's a real rush, that's close to impossible to replace when on a preserve.

But that doesn't mean quality and affordable preserve hunting isn't fun, especially when it's done right and with dedication, and it's all that's on the table at that place in time.

JDW, reintroduction in some form is the only method available when the birds are already gone. Put and take is a short term deal, but it beats no birds at all for people in those areas. A sustainable population of reproducing birds would be the ideal, but even in areas that continue to have wild birds there are vast swings in the numbers from year to year and I would say a trend toward decline. Quail do not lend themselves to management in the wild and they are enigmatic at best. They can be pen raised however and thankfully so for those that would use them for whatever purpose.

Pheasant were never native to the Americas so we must remind ourselves that all of them were planted at some point in time. They have done well in many areas and like wild quail there are places where native populations of birds get augmented with released birds that were pen raised the previous year. Large managed operations here [TX] can be several thousand acres and not fenced. It is hunting any way you care to look at it. Their pen raised birds are raised in flight pens, for all intents & purposes large arenas like the big top, but with chicken wire rooves rather than canvas. Pen raised birds all have bands, wild birds do not. No hens are taken on those operations, ever. Banded birds make up 60% of the bag in the operation I am familiar with and their season runs coincident with the regular pheasant season. This is not the same thing as a game preserve, rather this is another type of operation, but one that also uses pen raised birds.

The wild quail question has bugged a lot of people for a long time. I don't see that changing any time soon.

tw, suggest you may wish to peruse Vic Venter's two part article on SE quail in last years DGJ. He and his Dad hunted several of the "quail estates" in south Georgia and Florida and were treated to as many as 30-40 wild coveys/day. However as he is quick to point out it takes interest, money, and effective predator control. Also lots of fire! Best, Dr. Bill

tw, FYI, New York does allow us to take wild hen pheasants. Not sure what the rationale is. Around here the pheasants are mainly state raised and stocked a few weeks before the opener, then again a few weeks into the season. Some private stocking, too. Carryover isn't great but there are some at least (I do a little census of crowing cocks in May).

What you are saying about lack of attention to small game is even applicable in Arizona. Basically Arizona is big game hunting when it comes to Game and Fish Department paying attention. Now they are discovering we don't have enough big game to give everyone a chance on that front annually and small game is going to have to fill the gap or we will lose the hunt license revenues needed. Hopefully they will begin managing quail, cottontails, and squirrels with something near the effort they put in big game. Currently their only quail program is to pray for rain. Cottontails and squirrels are not managed other than bag limits and seasons. Predator control is the elephant in the room. We have more raptors, rattlesnakes and coyotes than any small game population can endure. But the raptors are virtually sacred! Blue Grouse exist but Game and Fish admits they don't know a blessed thing about them. Same with Band Tailed Pigeon. The saving grace here for the youngsters is the Mourning Dove and White Wing Dove populations.

Jerry, I think most of us agree that our various state game agencies respond to/for "big game". The question to me is what do we collectively do? Weeping and wailing and gnashing our teeth has gotten us no where! Also a correction on my part, I suggested above that Vic Venters articles were in DGJ-Wrong, he is the Senior Editor for Shooting Sportsman, sorry, "old timer's disease". Best, Dr. BILL

Could you explain what exactly you mean by Preserves?
Here we understand Preserves as places where hunting is usualy prohibited all the time and where WILD birds got a place to grow in number.
From your posts I understood that you mean some birds (sometimes exotic for these places such as Hungurian partrige) that were kept at farms untill some age and than released to the wild.
I don't see difference between this and Dig's (UK) explanations. Moreover Dig said that farmers catch WILD pheasants and breed them locally! It's funny, since what time Carasian Pheasant became local UK wild bird?!
I guess there must be said the difference between half-free ((or half-wild) as we call them) birds depends on age of birds to release and the following conditions of their habitation in wild.
If birds been released several hours before hunting - personally I'll never visit this place again, it's shame. If birds been released in mid summer, but hunting season will be opened in fall, it's not so good anyway and hunting will be so-so.
Personally I prefer 100% wild and local birds such as snipe, woodcock, black grouse...

Geno, all of the above, as you describe in all it's various flavors and shadings. Our "preserves" usually release birds on a fee/bird with the "release" anywhere from hours to a day or so in advance of the booked "party". Again there are all gradations and shadings to this. Generally the "preserve" season runs 2-3 times the length of the "wild" bird season. Our "preserves" are stricly a cash and carry enteprise. Hope the explanation helps, Dr. BILL

I'm for anything a farmer does in order for him to keep his farm. If that means to start a business of preserve hunting then so be it I'll be there every weekend!!!!
All the best