doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com All Gunsmith's and Members of ACGG are now Felons

You must understand: They are required to do inspections on those folks. An inspector has to get in the car, drive from the office, spend time inspecting, get back in the car, go back to the office and then write a report of the inspection and give it to the supervisor. Some have to travel to rural areas out of town and stay overnight just to do an inspection for a guy who really do not need an ffl. All this takes a large amount of time


John Boyd

John, I do understand that. I just think it's ridiculous.

I am all for the government saving money in smart ways. I'm not in favour of the government acting AS THOUGH they are trying to save money when the real reason is a policy against private gun ownership.

Judging by the responses of those who formerly held FFL's and were forced to give them up, it would appear that I did not simply look at a chart or graph and form an incorrect opinion. Of course, being an NRA member and being actively engaged in educating myself about the constant assault on the 2nd Amendment from the Liberal Left Democrats, none of this was news, conjecture, or incorrect assumptions to me.

John, you seem to be going to great lengths to defend the actions of Bill Clinton and his ATF. You keep emphasizing the aspect of being actively engaged in the business when there is no clear definition of what that really means. We can state with absolute certainty that if Ted or Stan or craigd made a small profit on the part time sale of a small number of guns, and did not report that small income, the IRS would consider that taxable earned income and come after them for their taxes. The IRS and their agents regularly pursue small amounts of tax revenue, and do not force small businesses out of business just so they don't have to be bothered. Can you show us where the Constitution allows the government to do that?

Since Clinton managed to reduce the number of FFL's so dramatically and agents no longer need to inspect and examine the bound ledgers of those now defunct FFL holders, did they lay-off vast numbers of agents or tell Congress that they didn't need as much money in their annual budget to run the bureau? Just a few months ago, we had Obama telling us that he was doing more Executive actions to force non-FFL's who sell only a few guns to become licensed FFL holders so that the government can track infrequent private sales. He obviously considers those who sell only a few guns to be actively engaged. Funny how fluid that requirement can be when the obvious intent is to infringe upon our rights.



I laughed when I saw that little statement and thought about all the Fudds. No surprises there. Roughly 4.5 million NRA members have been doing the worrying and the heavy lifting for the other 40 million gun owners who enjoy gun ownership for decades.

Keith:



First, let me say I am not standing up for ATF not renewing licenses.

The grafts that you put up did not explain why ffls were not renewed. If just shows that many were not renewed. I think it is important to why the various reasons for this and so I stated this.

As far as your statement about IRS coming after folks making a small profit is wrong. While they certainly can, they did not.

John Boyd

Keith

can you really say that a guy who has the same guns in inventory for years or only does a few transactions in a years time is really trying to make a business of it


John

There's little to be learned, but I had mentioned our club losing its ffl because of some likely quota that was arrived at by political ideology.

We had a small store that was not at someones home and was properly zoned. No firearm was kept in inventory for more than maybe two weeks. We were never told how many firearms transfers were enough. Just by happen chance, I never processed a firearm through that ffl for my self. We filed our taxes.

It started with a generic 'info' meeting in our area that we got a letter in the mail to attend. It seemed innocuous, but thinking back, it was clearly a quick screening process to build a list. We never had an on site inspection, though the club president may have done one a few years previous. In the end, we were shut down clerically through the mail, for very little effort on their part.

I doubt it's the same, but at the time, folks were saying, 'don't worry about, the club will be fine'. There was a policy change, and a bunch of folks didn't have the resources to stick up for themselves. I don't think they can all be brushed off as hobbyist's.

You got Longshanked.

__________________________
ATF...three of my favorite things.

As the anecdotal evidence illustrates, when the government doesn't want you to have guns, they will use every regulatory means available to effect change. Those who think "don't worry, these changes won't affect me and my little end of the hobby" make a grave error.

Every change needs to be fought against hard. Every legal change and every regulatory change. Because it's not ending until private gun ownership is outlawed. And rolling back a "concession" is especially difficult.

Moses had it right a few posts back.

Craigd

If you felt that AFT was wrong you could have filed an appeal. You do not need an attorney to file an appeal and there is no cost it


John Boyd

I can tell you this, if I had another job when the renewal came under Clinton and selling only 10-12 guns a year, I would not have renewed.

It would not have been worth it.


John Boyd