doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com All Gunsmith's and Members of ACGG are now Felons

Wrong again John. The IRS will go after you if you neglect to report even small amounts of earned or dividend income. They send you letters demanding the additional taxes you owe on said income, plus interest and penalties. I don't know what happens if you simply refuse to pay up at that point because when it happened to me, I paid the piper. The amount I owed was so small that I'm relatively sure the administrative costs to pursue it were probably greater. A government that wastes billions on pork, fraud, and stupid things like studying the sex life of fruit flies can hardly legitimately complain about the cost or inconvenience of examining the books of low volume FFL's every couple years. If anything, an extremely low volume of sales should make the intervals for examinations or audits much less frequent, or totally unnecessary.

Real Estate sales is another government regulated business requiring a Real Estate License in most if not all states. I know a lady who has kept her California Real Estate License active, yet has not sold a house in over 20 years. I think there would be real concern by many if the government infringed upon 1st Amendment Rights by forcing low volume publishers out of business. Even publishers of subversive books like the Anarchist's Cookbook or Rules For Radicals do not have to submit to intrusive government inspections. Free men do not remain free by simply rolling over and accepting what is unacceptable.

And you still continue to make excuses for the government forcing a couple hundred thousand low volume FFL's out of business through the Clinton years while neglecting to comment on the recent intentions of Obama to require very low volume sellers of guns to become licensed FFL's. It would appear the the priorities have changed somewhat. The concern during the Bill Clinton era was to drive out as many gun dealers as possible. It appears that the concern now is to have a paper trail of virtually every sale as a backdoor registration scheme... something Congress expressly prohibited... so far.

Finally, Stan raises an excellent point about those who are required to have an 01 FFL to do business even though they may make a good living doing gunsmithing, engraving, case hardening, etc., without ever actually selling a gun.

being "engaged in business" does not mean selling guns. It includes gunsmithing as your business. You could operate as a gunsmith and log in your A&Ds as all being customer firearms and never have to actually sell a gun.

When the atf asks about numbers on the renewal paperwork, it does not ask how many firearms are SOLD. It asks how many were Acquired and now many were Disposed of.

I wonder how many here claiming to know so much about FFLs, actually have or have had one.

I am not a past or present FFL, nor do I claim to know every requirement. I was however replying to John, who, among other things, said this:



Please note that his comment was about the number of guns sold, not simply logged in or out of his bound ledger book. What several of us are questioning is the obvious anti-gun motives of anti-gun Liberal Left Democrats who are perverting the law to harass and intimidate FFL's because of the volume of business they do. Higher volume FFL's who benefited financially from much of their competition being driven out of business during a time of increased demand for guns are obviously happy with their increased profits. But that doesn't make the actions of Bill Clinton and Co. consistent with respect for Gun Rights. The definition of engaged in the business seems to be whatever amount of sales or business that fits the current anti-gun agenda. I don't care to give my business to any FFL who thinks that is OK.

Whether the intent is to drive firearms dealers out of business, or to create a backdoor registration scheme, it's not OK. And it is something that any gun owner concerned about Gun Rights over the long term ought to be concerned about... unless you are a Fudd.

The atf does not care about guns SOLD. Merely INs and OUTs in the record books. For any reason.

For anyone questioning the "Engaged in Business" part, a VERY good publication was put together this past year in regards to it. It really addrssses any questions on the topic and helps people understand what it means to be "Engaged in Business". Which really is the number 1 requirement of being an FFL. If one does not understand it from that publication, they likely never will.

Of course that publication covers the people who dont have ffls but should have them based on their activities. Not the other way around.

And, once again, thay is the last i will say on this subject. No point in me going into it anymore.

Do you have a link or source for that publication? As I see it, the problem is that the definition of "engaged in the business" has been rather fluid, depending upon the current political climate. During the anti-gun Democrat Clinton administration, they had a problem with low volume FFL's, and drove over 200,000 out of business. Just a few short months ago, the anti-gun Democrat Barack Obama was making moves to force private sellers of as few as two guns to either become FFL's or to utilize an FFL to make those few sales. He made those statements right after the San Bernardino Muslim Terrorist attack... once again blaming law abiding U.S. gun owners for the actions of radical Islamists.

I keep repeating that simple point about the varying definition of "engaged in the business" because it does not seem to be registering.

I was hoping Ed Good would weigh in since he appears to still have an FFL without a brick and mortar shop, or regular business hours. He apparently knows some things a lot of us don't know.

Listen guys, some of what I have give you here is what the aft agent said to me personally. Did the clinton group push through more rules for an ffl to exist, yes.

Do I agree with all what they did, no, Can I see why some of it was done, yes

So what I have mentioned here is their ideas as to who should or should have a license

If you comply with their ideas, you have a license, if you do not, you do not.

John

Here you go...

http://ogca.com/atf100871download.pdf

I'm not sure which publication you're referring to, but I am assuming you agree with this concept by the way you talk down to folks.

All that has to happen is some new publication comes out, and you agree that it is a 100% gospel. I hope a new publication doesn't come out later today that steps on your toes. I understand, you're done with the subject.

I wonder what would happen if one year you had ten or twelve big restoration jobs and could take on no more during that time period. You clearly wouldn't meet some 'ins and outs for any reason' standard that you just came up with. Please don't answer, it came to my mind because you put out the position. I know you can come up with an exception for yourself.

edit to add, I noticed you offered a link after I submitted my comment.

Gee, if the Founding Fathers had that same take on things, we'd all still be kneeling before the Queen and paying exorbitant taxes to England.

craigd makes an excellent point about the small number of ins and outs that a small custom gunsmith might have in a year. I believe that Dewey Vicknair has told us that some of his impressive custom jobs run into the thousands of man hours. At that rate, even 10 or 12 transactions per year would be impossible.

I guess there will be no answer as to why "some" FFL license holders are so strictly interviewed as to the number of transactions, and some are not.

SRH