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Forums10
Topics39,498
Posts562,099
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Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 388 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 388 Likes: 1 |
The European market for firearms is small, as most countries in the EU have very restrictive gun laws, and with the troubles we have witnessed in france etc, are only going to get tighter. Add to that that the side by side, which i assume is what Ugartechea produced the most of, is seen as an old coots gun this side of the Atlantic. When i go shooting clays with mine, i am usually the only one out of dozens with a sxs.
The Spanish stuff does not have the reputation of the Italian guns like Beretta and Perazzi, i suppose the closest they would get would be AYA.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 504 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 504 Likes: 17 |
Getting back to the original point as to why another gun maker is going out of business.
Have you ever contemplated upon the number of double guns there are currently privately owned and in circulation?
I believe the membership here is also astute enough to realize that a well built double gun will last for generations if properly cared for.
I and I know many of you as well own perfectly functional double guns that are over 100 years old that still provide reliable service.
Additionally there IMO hasn't been a real breakthrough in double gun technology in decades. A 50 or 75 year old gun can be just as effective in the field and one made last month.
In general a used double can be bought for a fraction of the cost of a new one and I'll give you some hard numbers here. I have a 2 barrel cased AyA double that was built in the 70s at a cost of around $4,000. To duplicate this gun today from AyA(and I have a written quote) it would cost over $13,000.
You add all this up along with a weak economy and I think it's apparent why the new mid range to high end gun market is weak.
Jim Well said, sir.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,337 Likes: 340
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,337 Likes: 340 |
GJW, I assume you are being ironic, am I right? Just being a smarta$$. Steve is one the the finest smiths in the country. He knows his business thru hands on working, not what he just assumes because he's kennel blind.
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 504 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 504 Likes: 17 |
Please by all means, educate me. My premise is that the ejectors were shipped out too soft. My guess is they actually used some type of tool steel and over tempered the parts creating something that was not as hard as it should have been. It could indeed be low carbon steel but I thought Grulla was a better maker than that, could be my mistake. Help me out, your the expert. What exactly is the reasons the ejectors are not properly heat treated? If you are able to tell me the alloy that was used to make the part I can properly heat treat them myself. Not looking for an argument but I have run into many heat treating issues with Spanish guns over the years and them having soft parts is no myth. Sweet Jesus, SKB, you are supposedly a custom gun maker, you had the gun and the ejectors in your hands, and you’re asking me what kind of steel they were made of and how they were heat treated? Seriously?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,308 Likes: 615
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,308 Likes: 615 |
[/quote]
What I wrote was “the myth of soft steel”. What you’re reporting is low carbon steel with poor to no heat treatment.
If you can understand those are two different subjects we can have a discussion.
[/quote]
and I thought you were going to educate me about how to properly harden low carbon steel......
and please, more on "the myth of soft steel" as well. Your post has been highly enlightening so far.
Firearms imports, consignments ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/Ez9oz9Rl.jpg)
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,337 Likes: 340
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,337 Likes: 340 |
Steve, you mean entertaining not enlightening.....right?
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,014 Likes: 1817
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,014 Likes: 1817 |
But, unlike other countries and their gun makers, the French don't really care if you buy their gun or not, they're doing just fine without you. And, I'm getting along just fine without them, too, not that I have anything against the French. Just "pahtial" to American, I guess. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,710 Likes: 346
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,710 Likes: 346 |
....In terms of that yearly tax, back around 2008 Spain imposed a new, yearly, tax of 100 Euro on each gun possessed. This tax flushed out all the shotguns held, but infrequently (or never) used. Rather than pay the 100 EU yearly tax people just turned them into the Civil Guard.... Well heck, this is enlightening. One way to look at the weak market value of used Spanish doubles is that a whole lot more folks could be introduced them. Later, they are the folks who might seek out a higher end gun, just as the folks who can afford it, started at one time. I wonder why there's such a push in the US to flush everything out of the woodwork and get 'em registered.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357 |
Craig, You missed the real weak end of the market. Back when I got my Falcon 12 gauge (Uggy, imported here by American Imports, 1972 vintage) I routinely saw the dumped Spanish guns Kyrie is referring to in the $250-400 range. I won the auction for mine at $404, shipped. Mine wasn't dumped here, but, seller had to compete with a bunch that had been. I won't speak to other peoples Uggies, or, to the broader scope of soft stuff in Spanish guns other than to say this: Mine is good, and would have been dragged there, kicking and screaming if it hadn't been (more on that in a second) and John, one of the regulars here, who has imported Arriettas for years said he never has had a problem. Good enough from here. I got mine for so cheap I sent it to Cole Haugh, a former importer and gunsmith for Uggy, for new poly on the stock, new recoil pad, strip and clean, and opening the chokes. Since the gun has disc set strikers, I got a spare set, and the tool to put them in. Cole told me he always annealed, re-heat treated, and tempered the guts of a gun he got in for a strip and clean. Cheap insurance, he told me. I never had the chance to find out if anything was soft. He did a little polishing to internals, bent the stock left, and sealed the stock up and returned it to me. I'm really happy with the gun to this point. The Falcons were 3" chamber and proof, hidden third fastener non-ejectors, perfect for typical rainy day gun use. The gun, gunsmithing, and K & K case all came in less than $1200, and it is what I use as a traveler. Or, when hunting with someone's Lab, as they seem to step on the wrist of guns, or lift their legs and pee on guns, etc. People seem to be asking $500-1K for the guns, now, no idea what they are getting for them. Not English best, granted, but, I wouldn't use it as much as I do if it were.  I've got a little tool box that can come along, with the spare strikers. Haven't needed it, yet.  Best, Ted
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
The European market for firearms is small, as most countries in the EU have very restrictive gun laws, and with the troubles we have witnessed in france etc, are only going to get tighter. Add to that that the side by side, which i assume is what Ugartechea produced the most of, is seen as an old coots gun this side of the Atlantic. When i go shooting clays with mine, i am usually the only one out of dozens with a sxs.
The Spanish stuff does not have the reputation of the Italian guns like Beretta and Perazzi, i suppose the closest they would get would be AYA. Just like real estate, Location, Location, Location. But for guns its Reputation, Reputation, Reputation.
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