doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Greener ZSR steel

Hello Folks,
I just received a Greener Empire double rifle dated 1928.



It's hard to see on my poor picture but there is "ZSR" stamped on the tube.
The Graham Greener letter mentions that the rifle was made with "ZSR" steel.
Does anyone has any idea what that is?
I googled a lot but got nothing.

Best regards,
WC-

P.S> Graham thought this gun might be one of a kind, but I know there is at least another one around.

I'm a bit biased to the Austro-Hungarian Empire sources, of course this is post A-H Empire, but a wild off the cuff guess considering the Z being the 1st character & with there being little info, I'd guess Skoda or similar offering under the heading of Zbrojovka or one of the other associated Zs.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Not sure what Slovakia was c. 1920s
�eleznice Slovenskej Republiky

http://www.hungariae.com/Markings.htm
ZSr = Artillerie Zeugsdepot Sarajevo

Drew, I think you to well centred with the above & my hope was Austrian/Ferlach arms authority Jani would chime into the discussion. I still hold w/ Skoda for now.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

A few Zs I have known:

Zbrojovka Praga

Ceskoslovenske Zavody na Vyrobu Zbrani - CSZ

Ceska Zbrojovka - CZ

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka - ZB

And I'm confident there are more.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Please post photos of action and action face of your Empire double rifle. It is a rare gem. I was not certain that any had ever been made. Is the action the same size and with hinge pin the same size as the Empire shotgun?

Sincerely;
Lowveld

Great cartridge and usually the rifles are under valued on the current market. How about some pictures of the rest of the rifle? I love Greener rifles.

Steve is correct that the .360 no.2 a great cartridge.

Graeme Wright, author of the book "SHOOTING THE BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE" says: "A very much overlooked cartridge. With the 320 grain bullet it is up there with the .375 Flanged H&H Magnum in effectiveness. It shares the same bullet diameter as the 9.3 so a wide variety of bullets are available." Wright lists a number of loads for the cartridge in his book.

On another note, I have a copy of the UK book: "Rules of Proof 1954" which includes the proof loads that the London and Birmingham proof authorities used then to proof rifles and guns. The .360 No. 2 shows that it was proofed with 64 grains of Cordite with a 320 grain bullet and greased cloth wadding. The length of the cartridge with this proof load was 3.875 inches.

The same "rules of proof 1954" shows the proof load for the .375 H&H Flanged Magnum was 1 grain less of Cordite than the .360 No. 2 with a 300 grain bullet; while the .375 H&H Belted Magnum was proofed with 1 grain more of Cordite than the .360 No. 2 with a 300 grain bullet--both .375 H&H cartridges were 3.700" long.

I do not advocate that you re-proof your rifle, just giving you what I discovered.

From the horse's mouth (e.g. Graham Greener):
"Over the years barrels have been made from various steels and Damascus iron & steel mixtures. ZSR is a specification for the steel used in the manufacture of the barrels of a gun but I do not know the exact constituents. We have used many different types of steel ZSR and ZS2 frequently feature in our records and are probably similar to the EN19 and EN32 we use today. I am sorry I cannot provide more details."

Well this pretty much rules out a vendor name and leaves a custom spec'ed steel.

The gun is "as new" and I am not saying this lightly.

I'll post additional pictures later as I am leaving for a hunt in a few minutes.

Have a great Sunday!
WC-

We backward colonialist would call EN19 4140 Chrome Moly and EN32 a ChromeNickelMoly variant