Wow there is some condesending attitudes!! I live to hunt wild birds, but.... When training a dog, let me put them out, let the dog work, let me work the dog.. its a great training tool(i get the feeling the ones that are against this are the ones that buy started dogs....A nice old (78) year old dog guy once told me to get a great bird dog, he needs birds, birds, birds...I have been on a few orvis endorsed preserve hunting that have been very very nice... but that said, I still like the wild birds...