doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Kent Bismuth and Tungsten Pressures

I mentioned my dad was an auto dealer in the 60s/70s. He carried Datsun, Volvo, Triumph, Jag, and Subaru (as nasty & small a POS if there ever was one). Dad sold my 69 goat (I'm sure I did nothing to warrant this) as he said it used too much gas (maybe tires?) and I could have one of the first 240 Zs that came in. Well....the 240 sold like ice on a hot MS day and I got to drive a 64 Falcoon with glasspacks and a 4 speed. Eventually I got back in dad's good graces (think worried him unmercifully) and I got my first Z, a bright orange hottie. Kept that for a year or so then got a baby turd yellow 260 Z. The 260 stayed for a year then was replaced with a 74 Cutlass w/442 options but no badging. Had the cool swing out seats. Kept the Cutlass thru the remainder of college then traded it in on a baby blue 280 Z. Loved that car but wife/kids demanded more than 2 seats.

Only regret is I didn't snag some of the cars on his lot (Hemi Charger, Sunbeam Tiger, 427 Vette, 427 Cobra) and store them till the 1990s.

I have a 71 spitfire in the garage....take it out a couple times a year for the wife....but always tell her to stay close to home with it....never know when the prince of darkness with rear his head...

Q: Why do Brits enjoy warm beer?
A: Because Lucas builds their refridgerators, too.

Q: Have you seen the new Lucas three position headlight switch?
A: On, Off, and "Flicker".

The motorcycle guys have the best Lucas jokes, from what I have seen.


Best,
Ted

PS Mike the 1974 442 is a rare bird today, few sold and few survive. The last 442 poster I got from the Olds club, they couldn't find one to use in the photo.
Years ago, when Joe Mondello was still alive, a local guy had a stripper 1974 442 that was a bucket seat and stripe delete car with a four speed. He had one of the Mondello conversion 455s that was out to like, 512 cubic inches, and a 4:56 out of a similar vintage Chevelle. Maroon paint and bench seat interior, and if it had options beyond PS and PB, I didn't see them.
Never saw it run, but, it was plain as Jane, and I don't doubt it caught a few guys by surprise.

To get back on topic... not that cars aren't cool...

I'm not at all sure that commercial loaders load to the higher end of the pressure range to 'function automatics'.

The point of the gas tap is similar between makes, and according to Butler is in the area of 1500-2000 psi give or take.

Chamber pressures can vary from 7,000 psi or so, up to SAAMI max and still function automatics.

It appears to be the volume of gas that counts, which would be related more to total impulse of the shell than chamber pressure.

This 'book' load for a Remington hull with 1 1/8 oz of shot:

Winchester
WAALite
Ched. 209
WAA12
14.7
11,500 PSI
1,090

would at first glance seem to be a real 'hot' load but of course it isn't. I'd be amazed if it worked a stock 1100.

Recoil autos are the same story. They need a certain total impulse to function, and total impulse isn't directly related to chamber pressure.

It's that old 'area under the curve' thing again.

All I see any more at the Sunday 'Turkey' shoot are 12 gauge automatics with plastic stocks. A few have older Remington's, 870s and 1100s, and that's about it.

The cheapest powders are loaded to keep production costs down. There is no free lunch, and the cheapest powders have the least controlled burn, and produce the highest pressures.
The cheaper the round, the higher the pressure, is a good rule of thumb.

Best,
Ted

Herters Low Recoil 12 gauge 1 ounce ammo at 1060'/sec would not cycle a Beretta A300 gas gun even though it says you can use down to 7/8 ounce on the gun.

I don't know whether they're still available, but Gamebore used to make a 12ga TM load in 2 1/2" hulls. 1 1/16 oz of either 5's or 6's--not sure if those are Brit or US shot sizes. The box indicates they're OK in guns with either 3 ton or 850 bar proof. I have a small stash of them which I use very judiciously. I don't hunt waterfowl, and I seldom hunt pheasants where nontox is required--so likely a lifetime supply.

You're right Ted.

Although thumb rules do have exceptions... like the one about promo loads having soft shot.

Federal 'Field and Range' had some of the hardest shot I've ever seen. That was an incredibly tight patterning load which we traced to ultra hard lead.

The cheapest crap powder had to be the early Estate stuff. I saw one box of that bring a 390 to it's knees. Semi-smokeless with emphasis on the 'semi' part. Estate is a very good brand now though... their 'dove' loads are Cheddite France, and clean as a whistle.

That's why I'm always hearing "damn it" when I'm out hunting with people who carry those jamomatic contraptions. I always thought he just stubbed his toe or something.