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Forums10
Topics38,934
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231 |
If it's too vivid, bust out the Flitz. Or not!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Colors are wonderful, but they were a by product of the surface hardening for wear resistance, and the softer, tougher interior. I've seen a Parker trigger plate that had great colors shatter during removal to fix the broken stock. Has anyone Rockwell hardness tested before and after ? What good are the colors, if the surface hardening is lost? I suspect that was due to quenching at too high a temperature. The metal had converted to brittle Martensite. What Turnbull is able to achieve, somewhat different from the other folks, is the correct color balance. I try to imagine the colors three dimensionally, first by identification of the "base", or the color that is prevalent. With Turnbull, it is obviously (and correctly) blue. If you look at others, that is not always the case. What I see is often gray or even charcoal. The other colors, although good, just don't look correct over a base that is clearly not blue. In my opinion, this applies to English guns as well as Parkers, the Base being slightly different for some other makes.
Last edited by Ken61; 11/02/16 08:25 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,602 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,602 Likes: 14 |
I would think that a shop or an individual who has been color case hardening long enough to earn a reputation of high regard in replicating original color will have long ago gone through the 'trial & error' phase where they might have crystallized the steel. I'll stick with the professional who doesn't make such mistakes. But that's why I am asking these questions.
A lot of DT's colors these days are much too dark solid blue and not like the bright translucence that he used to produce much earlier, and much like the Remington Parker colors CJO showed in his pictures.
I know all about the differences between Parker Bros. color case hardening process vs. Remington's processes in later years... I am NOT looking for the chemically done colors such as cyanide which was used by Remington in the thirties and forties.
Last edited by DAM16SXS; 11/02/16 08:49 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
I have always assumed that the "base" color on L C Smiths is grey, and the blues looked to be "over" the grey. Proper English colors always looked to have a predominant grey as well. I could be totally wrong about that, though.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
I would think that a shop or an individual who has been color case hardening long enough to earn a reputation of high regard in replicating original color will have long ago gone through the 'trial & error' phase where they might have crystallized the steel. I'll stick with the professional who doesn't make such mistakes. But that's why I am asking these questions.
A lot of DT's colors these days are much too dark solid blue and not like the bright translucence that he used to produce much earlier, and much like the Remington Parker colors CJO showed in his pictures.
I know all about the differences between Parker Bros. color case hardening process vs. Remington's processes in later years... I am NOT looking for the chemically done colors such as cyanide which was used by Remington in the thirties and forties. Methodology about the CC process varies widely. Several years ago when I began my research, I was amazed at the wide variety of instructions available, and the professionals like Turnbull and others don't volunteer info. (I don't blame them). The best examples are Brownell's and Midway, providing very basic info at best.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,602 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,602 Likes: 14 |
There is NO debate. Turnbull is the ONlY shop getting accurately reproduced colors on Parker guns. Period.
Opinions aside or who is buddies with who... it is just the fact of the matter. Actually you stated your opinion. And there will always be a debate as long as there are differences of opinion. Why don't you just let your vendetta against Brad go... It's not at all attractive - let it slide... take a deep breath... now exhale. There, isn't that better?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
I have always assumed that the "base" color on L C Smiths is grey, and the blues looked to be "over" the grey. Proper English colors always looked to have a predominant grey as well. I could be totally wrong about that, though.
SRH
Good example. I'd agree about LCs, as the grey allows the browns to stand out and contrast with the blues. I tend to think of English colors being more subdued, due to a blue base, Spanish coloring as well. One of the more eclectic patterns is found on Syracuse guns, somewhat similar to LCs with a grey base and vivid browns, but with pinks and reds thrown in. All should be vivid, and many examples of current coloring out there seems to be "muddy", which I suspect was not the way it was originally. The Italians appear to be successful in creating vivid colors, evidenced by colors on their modern repros.
Last edited by Ken61; 11/02/16 09:21 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4 |
Best colors? Who ever did the Hartmann & Weiss shotgun I saw a couple of months ago.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405 |
There is NO debate. Turnbull is the ONlY shop getting accurately reproduced colors on Parker guns. Period.
Opinions aside or who is buddies with who... it is just the fact of the matter. Actually you stated your opinion. And there will always be a debate as long as there are differences of opinion. Why don't you just let your vendetta against Brad go... It's not at all attractive - let it slide... take a deep breath... now exhale. There, isn't that better? My thoughts on the subject of case colors stand completely independant of any issues I have personally or professionally.
B.Dudley
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Agreed, Deano. I have no time for vendettas against anyone, even some of your brother "Carriage bolted double gun" assn. members. We all need to remember the advice of Confucious, to wit: "A man who carries a grudge digs two graves"--
Dudley Do-Wrong has a hardon against my good friend Brad Bachelder is between them, but when the pushing gets to shovin', I'll always side with a good friend, and that is Brad. I have seen some of his work, and I have not seen any of Mr. Dudley's, that I know of- I have also seen Buck Hamlin's, Turnbull's and Del Grego's as well. We all take diferent roads to get to the same destination do we not.RWTF
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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