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Forums10
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 332 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 332 Likes: 5 |
25 inch barrels on a 12 ga are a no go for me, unless its a ultra light 2" chamber. I prefer 28, 30 and longer barrels in a 12 ga.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
If you buy the Merkel- and you should, I have a mint warranty card and manual- in English and also in Deutsch- for a 470 double, FYI-- I'd almost always take the 28" barrels over the shorter Churchill XXV series- but that's just me-- you pays your money and you takes your pick--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,985 Likes: 894
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,985 Likes: 894 |
Buy them both. Shoot them both, hard, for a year. Three years would be better.
At the end of the three year period, one will sort out to be the better candidate. Sell the other. If both work out well, keep both, and let your heirs figure out what to do with them after you croak with custody of two decent guns, or sell the one that is in a state of lower condition. If you don't know at the end of three years of use which works out better for you, you haven't shot them enough. I don't know how anybody could tell you which gun to buy and use without seeing either of them, or, you.
A slight aside based on personal observation, I don't care for strikers that are integral with the tumblers. I think both of these guns fall into that catagory, however.
Good luck.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
Well ! Have you chosen one yet ? If so, which one & why ? O.M Moses, I haven't decided yet, but right now W&S is the front runner for the following reasons given in no particular order: 1. Shorter barrels will make me look taller 2. I have couple buckets of 2.5" low recoil slugs from B&P plus several boxes of 2&1/4" Italian shells with SG shot. This is significant because by buying 25" SxS with open chokes I can dump my "Police type" HD guns leaving me with only one shotgun for both HD and hunting. 3. The W&S has professionally installed thin Pachmayr 'Old English" pad giving LOP of nearly 15". This will help with proper gun mounting and more importantly prevent gun from sliding on hardwood oak floors when stored behind doors or in corners of room(s). Such storage is prudent for gun serving HD role. 4. The W&S is $1000 less than the Merkel which represents substantial saving for what amounts to equal quality gun. Both are mass produced SxS shotguns. and $1000 still buys lots of grocery bags even if Kosher and or Organic quality food products are chosen. 5. While both guns are in excellent mechanical order and still tight the English gun as expected is much easer to break down and put together. The German gun requires more force and strain to put back together and break down. This adds much to pleasure to using the English gun. Lets face it is no fun to break the gun "over the knee" to reload it.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
25" barrels are not easy to sell in a 12 bore. Be easier in a 20 but not as a 12. So if reselling is important I'd stay away from the 25". I'm with Jon on this one. I do not agree fully with this assesament. In places like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan,... yes where I reside no. Here they do love their Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, Minis and Jaguars. What Englishmen wear in the field is worn on Sundays here. Most will never give Gebruder Merkel made in DDR a second look. In the future they will not even know what DDR represented.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,561 Likes: 249
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,561 Likes: 249 |
....right now W&S is the front runner for the following reasons given in no particular order.... Jm, it doesn't sound like any of your reasons have much to do with bird hunting. Seriously, use your riot gun for now and see if more choices turn up after the season at good prices. I'm not really wondering, but 1k price difference, and the W&S is more popular in your neck of the woods? Put half in a cookie jar and get the groceries with the rest.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Keep the riot issue shotgun(s) for HD--best weapon for CQC ops. ever made- with 00 buckshot- Buy the Merkel- German shotguns are top shelf in quality, design and metallurgy- and then buy my Merkel owners manual and registration card- Der Fuchs!!
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,162 Likes: 38
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,162 Likes: 38 |
I've owned a lot of Merkels, mostly 12ga. They tend to be stout but heavy. Also, generally speaking, I've never seen a German gun to match the ergonomics of an English gun. For grouse the 25" barrels won't be a problem. The tapered Churchill rib gives the appearance of a longer barrel. My preference is 28" barrels but I'm shooting a bespoke left hand SXS 20ga with screw chokes. It weighs 5lb 7oz pounds and the 28" barrels are perfectly balanced.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
I've owned a lot of Merkels, mostly 12ga. They tend to be stout but heavy. Also, generally speaking, I've never seen a German gun to match the ergonomics of an English gun. For grouse the 25" barrels won't be a problem. The tapered Churchill rib gives the appearance of a longer barrel. My preference is 28" barrels but I'm shooting a bespoke left hand SXS 20ga with screw chokes. It weighs 5lb 7oz pounds and the 28" barrels are perfectly balanced. I also looked over: West German Sauer Royal 16ga, 20ga Merkel 147EL and 12ga Winchester-Parker (Olin Kodensha). I concluded that 25" Webley Scott was the best handling gun for the money spent. While I went to look over the gun to make the final selection by pure accident I found my Ole' Man upland gun. I brought home 2&3/4" 20 ga with 28" barrel. The unladen weight is 4lb5oz. Thank you very much for your generous help.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,985 Likes: 894
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,985 Likes: 894 |
It will be very nice to carry, and close to impossible to shoot well. It will also kick like a ten gauge.
Good luck. I mean that.
Best, Ted
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