doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How to determine English gun grade

I'm going to be careful how I answer this because there are a load of variables involved. A top grade gun would be made by the best craftsmen using the best materials available at the time, now, the customer may not like fine engraving so may ask for a best gun with simple border engraving.
Would this seem to us today , at first glance , a lower grade gun ?
Many colonial grade guns were built to incredible standards and could be used to knock a fence post into the ground.
The stock may be plain looking but strong and functional. Barrels may made a a bit thicker to stand up to knocks in transit too. In one man's eyes, this could be a better gun, to others, it's in the detail, intricate engraving even on the pins/screws, the level of finish of every part would be perfect.
It may be a case of studying the original orders and paperwork for the gun and working out which bits are the common denominator in terms of high quality ?
Is a diamond encrusted best gun better than one without diamonds ?
Could an off the shelf best gun really be classed as best or would it be made to fit the buyer ?
I'm guessing that only a small percentage of the people involved in the trade were actually involved with building the finest guns.
One of the most beautiful guns I've ever seen was a 20 bore single by Harper. It was tired but the detail was exquisite. Some of the sidelocks built by Scott were as well made and finished as what we would call a fine gun sold by one of the best London names.
I believe it's hard to pigeon hole a lot of guns without seeing the spec they were originally built to.
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Top grade could have chopper lump barrels, well known lock makers locks and a fantastic piece of wood, whichever ejector was fashionable at the time may be fitted, yet you could need the same gun with well struck and regulated dovetail barrels, non ejector and a strong grained stock rather than exhibition grade wood. Materials , time to build and therefore finish would determine the grade. I think you'd need to take it apart and see which boxes are ticked with what you find.
I'm no expert by any means but that's how I look at them.

Sorry, no, it's not that simple.
Some boxlocks by Greener and Westley Richards were certainly bests; more than a few unengraved Boss and Purdeys were still bests. Quite a few london bests were not stocked to the fences. What do you do with hammers? It goes on.
A definition of "best" is just not that simple.

I recently saw a Henry Atkin gun, just border engraved with a swirl or two of scroll, it was a fantastic gun...more engraving would have made it prettier, but I don't think it would have made it a Better Gun
franc

If I remember correctly, our dear old mate (Owl eye) Bill Wise's son Ben , shot a

Greener Royal that didn't have a lick of engraving on it, but Graham , in his book gave it Best Gun credits?...^ & Ben won some coin with it...so how does that work out??
franc

There is no simple answer to your question. As noted by prior posters multiple firms possessed different grading systems so no one three tier standard can be applied across all English makers.

Further challenging the question of best grade is no single standard can be effectively applied as it can be argued there are best grade SLE, BLE, and Round Action guns.

The standard that a best is the best gun a maker can build holds an enormous range of possibilities. I have come down to the point that it is near impossible to be definitive without wiggle room

OK, especially as we are discussing H&H, what do you think of this one for grade and was it likely made by H&H?

Webley Scott?

suggested reading: https://www.doublegunshop.com/ryder3.htm

While good informative not entirely correct

Many Best guns have a double underbite and third hidden fastener, , Many H&H style guns have third bites, further many Belgian best have frames that are scuplted with reinforced frames.

I could go on, but the bottomline is I believe one set of rules while describing the prevelance of some features is not a vald universal

and generally speaking:

a best grade gun would be a side lock gun, made by one of the top london based makers...

a second grade gun would be a box lock, ejector gun, made by one of the top birmingham makers...

and a third grade gun? well, that might be a plain, box lock, extractor gun, made by one of the lesser known cottage shop gunmakers, located throughout the british isles...