doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shotgun Boss of Nazi Henrich Himmler

Calin, the "4 locks" on a Verney is relatively new. Older ones had a different action. This one does appear to be an "Helice" gun. But if it were made by V-C, it would have both their name and one of the variations of "Helice"--likely on the top lever--that they had trademarked. Since this gun has none of those, it's simply some other St. Etienne maker's knockoff, using what appears to be the Helice action.

Yuck. I would burn it.

Well the Germans used captured French tanks.

Something about that "signature" engraving just doesn't look right to me. If I was a WWII collector I would pass on this. It is too suspicious.

SRH

Mazeltof!

Ja-- For the Sharpshooter--RWTF. A joke, as Himmler was bat-shit blind- he had the real "coke bottle" sized lenses for his astigmatism-- Hermann Goering, a WW1 ace combat flier with 28 confirmed kills- including some Allied balloons and bombers, had eagle-eye vision, was a crack marksman and avid hunter-and gun collector. Himmler, as head of the dreaded SS (Hitler's guard unit) was given decorated firearms by those who wanted to curry favor, but he was never the hunter that old "Fat Boy" Hermann Goering was.

It is what some call JABC, but because of high original condition in USA gun like that will set you back about $600 to $800. If I wanted good knockabout from Belgium it would be old vintage "keeper grade" Auguste Francotte. Those are equal to British Webley & Scott 700s series.

The one in original pics is about $350 item. If I was into Nazi paraphernalia which I'm not I would want some reference in credible literature that such guns were given as trophies/awards of merit. If that is so I would be willing to pay 50% premium over similar gun w/o extra stamping/etchings.

In Russia, lots of people collect Nazy stuff and explain it as "we've kicked their ass, now we keep their shit as trophies". Sort of like feudal barons used to hang on the walls of their castles the swords and shields of the knights they'd killed or defeated at tournament. Arguably, this trophy keeping indicates a respect for one's enemy, and it's a big question whether such respect for the Nazis is appropriate.

While the jury's out on it - To the gun.

Surely this is not a gift TO Himmler, but it could be a prize given to the winner of some shooting contest, etc. I hope the shooting contest was not "who can execute the most Jews or Communists per hour", of course.

Now here's my train of thought.

If such contests with such prises were routine, then there had to be hundreds of guns like that. Not all would survive the post-1945 years; I think anyone here would've dumped such "prize" into the nearest bog.

But, that would mean there was a whole bureaucracy about that.

Of course Himmler himself would have nothing to do with such a gun; the bureaucrats would just pick anything they could lay their hands on, slap on the inscription and tie it with a ribbon, or whatever.

And, this bureaucracy couldn't get without a paper trail. There would be records about who was given what gun on what occasion. Again, not all such records perhaps survived - e.g., if the contest in question was among the troops stationed in France, after liberation the French couldve just used them for toiled paper or burned.

But historians of SS couldn't leave such contests unnoticed. So, if I cared a bit about this piece of metal, I'd try to read up on the relevant history. Would add credibility to the story, if anything.

Have I already told the one about Trotsky and giving guns as gifts here?

Our board expert on items like this is Italian SxS aka JamesM. I would PM him for his assessment on this item.

After some considerable thought, the value of the gun is approximately the low value of the Nazi Third Reich Coins in my hand from the time.