doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is an antique firearm?

Your the "special" one Dave....as in short bus special.

Here. Chew on this: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/3rd/054088p.pdf
Not even federal judges can agree on what is, or is not, an "antique" firearm.

I decided to take a little look. I like the 'and' part. Hand grenades?

The case needs more than a "little look". The short version is he was charged - 2 separate charges - with having an unregistered sawed-off shotgun and unregistered destructive devices (the hand grenades). He defended the sawed-off shotgun charge by arguing it was an "antique" as defined in the statute. (He really didn't have much of a defense as to the grenades.)

The dispute over the shotgun was not whether it was pre-1899 - there was consensus it was made sometime between 1870 and 1883. Rather, it was over whether the fact it could fire 12 gauge ammunition while only being marked 18.2 (mm, the common Belgian mark of bore diameter) meant it was not an antique because it could use modern ammunition. The judges decided the statute was "vague" (in the lawyerly sense) because it could be read both in favor of the government's position and in favor of the defendant's position. Because they decided the statute was "vague" they had to toss his conviction on the sawed-off shotgun count. (Note that the 2nd Circuit had previously decided the statute was not "vague", deciding it in favor of the government's position.)

That didn't change much for him, though, because the conviction on the grenade count stood up. Because he would have gotten the same sentence for just the grenade conviction as he did for both the grenade and the sawed-off shotgun counts, he got no relief (other than a decrease in an assessment from $200 to $100). He still got the same 46 months in prison.

There you have it Little Creek remove from your book as described or play it safe and treat as a firearm and risk being cited for erroneously placing it in your book.

I believe Keith, SKB, and Dave K amongst others have effectively laid out courses of action, and described the risks

Forget the thread diversions and other silliness which is hard to avoid for some posters.

Focusing on your dilemma. Unfortunately the BATF is not a consistent and predictable enforcement agency.

You can be right whichever course you choose and still be screwed.

Ultimately what level of risk are you willing to tolerate?

I wish you the best.

when in doubt, follow the spirit of the law...no law enforcement official will fault you for that...

The Spirit of the law is that an ""Antique" SHOULD NOT be entered into the bound Book.
As previously stated I simply would not buy an antique which the seller tried to Force me to register. There are plenty of Dealers who sell antiques all the time with no paperwork involved for me to patronise those who refuse to do so.

old hypocrite, oops I'm sorry... I mean old colonel, makes an interesting point about this issue when he predictably whines and stomps his feet about what he perceives as "thread diversions" and "silliness". Being anal retentive will do that to you. For some odd reason, whenever he posts, I think of a nosy old woman peering disapprovingly out of the curtains like Gladys Kravitz on the old "Bewitched" show. It's so nice to have an estrogen filled thread moderator.

But anyhow, this subject provides a perfect example of just how and why Gun Rights and Politics are so very important to the pursuit of our passion, hobbies, and even businesses of dealing with firearms.

A few notable people here are very concerned about the "risks" of merely complying with the law as Congress wrote it. They are worried about perverted interpretations of the law that may cause them headaches or even an unjust prosecution. But if you look back over the history of enforcement of the Gun Control Acts and persecution and harassment of FFL holders, the vast majority of that unjust treatment of law abiding citizens has resulted from edicts, judicial appointments, or appointments of anti-gunners to head the BATF made by the very same Liberal Left Democrat politicians who are staunchly supported and defended by the likes of King Brown, Ed Good, Dave-in-Maine, and SKB.

It's a sad time indeed when so-called "Free men" have to cower in fear of their government because they do not have either the good sense or the will to confront perversions of justice... or to elect politicians who will uphold their duty to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. They probably ought to play it safe and not exercise their Free Speech Rights by speaking or writing about their use and possession of firearms, just in case someone like Hillary Clinton ever gets elected... by people and FUDD's like them.

Since we are straying off topic....this was easily the best post of 2016.

Hey, that's a pretty lame comeback Lefty Stevie. I thought you told us all several times that you were IGNORING my posts? You and old hypocrite need to lay off the estrogen, and do what you say.

Are you still crying about Trump getting elected?