Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: Stan
They just don't have the innovation and vision that the Italians do. They're content to copy. That can only last so long.

SRH


Stan,
If you compare a Beretta S series from the 1950s to a Silver Pig, about the only inovation you will clearly see is that far fewer human hands built the pig, and they were less skilled hands, at that. If you try to compare an ASEL from the 1950s, you will find that Beretta doesn't build anything that compares to it, and hasn't for some time. Internally, there hasn't been any revolution in Beretta boxlock O/Us that I am aware of.
The Spanish built copies of A&D boxlocks and Holland pattern sidelocks that ranged from middling to spectacular. I'm going to guess that the average buyer for a type of gun like that isn't looking for a bunch of "innovation" but, wants a sound copy of the same tried and true English versions of either of those guns. If I could afford to place an order at Purdeys or Hollands (I can't) I wouldn't be looking for any innovation. I want it to look pretty much like they did from between the wars.
How many people, at this late date, are actually in the market for either a new Spanish or English pattern boxlock, or sidelock? It is a diminishing number.
I think it a bit unfair to say it is simple lack of innovation that doomed the Spanish gun. There are many factors involved, and I seriously doubt many of their clients from the past expected innovation from the standard pattern copies of the English SXS guns they had produced for so long. Some may have asked for (and, got) choke tubes or steel shot proof, but, there isn't much that can be improved on either design of SXS gun, assuming it is a well built copy.

Best,
Ted


When I said innovation and vision I meant as opposed to copying designs of others. Which of Beretta guns are direct copies of other companies' guns? I do not know of any. As to the 1950s guns being the same design as today, nothing wrong with staying with a design that works great and that lasts. The opposite of that is Ford. Though I run Ford trucks on the farm, it infuriates me how they constantly change things on their trucks instead of sticking with something tried and true.

Lack of innovation and vision isn't the only thing that is causing the demise of the great Spanish unmaking industry, but I believe it was a large part of it. Changing with the times and using technology instead of man hours to build guns was not a bad thing for the industry in general. To those who had rather lay claim to a hand built gun, I can see that it is an anathema. Hand built guns are fine, if that's what you want, but they come at a cost most of the world will never pay. I'd rather see a company change with the times, as many such as Beretta has, than become insolvent because they can't sell their products for what they need to, to make a profit. As long as the Italians turn out O/U guns as good as most of them are, more power to the CNC machines. Take a look in the English gunmakers' shops and you'll see more and more machines replacing action filers, barrel borers, etc. There is really no other sensible choice for them.

SRH

May God bless America and those who defend her.