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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,999 Likes: 113
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,999 Likes: 113 |
just sayin....if you are going to call it Fox A Grade.....it should be a FOX....and I see no reason that its not a straight copy of an original fox with up to date steel ....I mean the beauty of a Fox is in the guns simplification of its mechanisms....should be easy to copy and make a profit for a reasonable price..... Just don't call this thing a FOX....because its not.... The same sort of thing was done with the CSMC over and under Model 21.......it's nothing remotely close to a Winchester Model 21. A joke, for sure and really not much of a surprise that it will be done again.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,578 Likes: 32
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,578 Likes: 32 |
If the Japanese can 100 percent copy a Parker 30 plus years ago, I'm not sure why someone couldn't copy a Fox Sterlingworth with a snap on Forearm now. Put some decent American Walnut on it as well as options of 30 and 32" barrels and have at it. I truly wonder if the R&D folks at these various companies ever do any historical research before they trot something out. If you are going to call it a Fox then make it truly a Fox. Pretty uncomplicated innards as compared to a Parker.
foxes rule
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,418 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,418 Likes: 2 |
If the Japanese can 100 percent copy a Parker 30 plus years ago, I'm not sure why someone couldn't copy a Fox Sterlingworth with a snap on Forearm now. Put some decent American Walnut on it as well as options of 30 and 32" barrels and have at it. I truly wonder if the R&D folks at these various companies ever do any historical research before they trot something out. If you are going to call it a Fox then make it truly a Fox. Pretty uncomplicated innards as compared to a Parker. what he said......
gunut
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
This has been going on for years. After Ithaca bought Lefever Arms Co of Syracuse NY they put on the market the Nitro Special which was absolutely nothing like the original Lefever. They marked it Lefever Arms Co, but with an Ithaca NY address. They were simply utilizing the Name Recognition which they by then owned.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
Yes Larry all our points are valid but it does offend some to call what you described as a Fox A Grade. And would it have killed them to at least give it the proper A Grade engraving? I'd still like to see one with 32" 20 ga. barrels but not a 5K. Everyone seems to be doing it. I imagine Savage still owns the Fox name (maybe has some sort of arrangement with CSMC), so--for better or worse--they can call anything they want a Fox. The same way Marlin called sideplated guns made for them by Fausti and Zabala L.C. Smiths. And Webley & Scotts are now being made in Turkey, and don't look that much like W&S either.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,578 Likes: 32
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,578 Likes: 32 |
Yes Larry all our points are valid but it does offend some to call what you described as a Fox A Grade. And would it have killed them to at least give it the proper A Grade engraving? I'd still like to see one with 32" 20 ga. barrels but not a 5K. Everyone seems to be doing it. I imagine Savage still owns the Fox name (maybe has some sort of arrangement with CSMC), so--for better or worse--they can call anything they want a Fox. The same way Marlin called sideplated guns made for them by Fausti and Zabala L.C. Smiths. And Webley & Scotts are now being made in Turkey, and don't look that much like W&S either. Larry do manufactures reach out to writers like yourself and ask for input prior to rolling out something like this. Just seems like this was put together by a couple of Savage folks talking to CSMC and figuring how they could tweak a few things cosmetically and therefore create a new market. The reality is the market is there for a Fox gun that cloned the original in every way except for the possible addition of choke tubes and using steel shot. Just seems like not much research is done before hand, but I could certainly be wrong.
foxes rule
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 789 Likes: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 789 Likes: 142 |
Hey, the PT Cruiser sure isn't a hot rod but lots of people spent their money to buy one and chrome accessories.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,513 Likes: 408
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,513 Likes: 408 |
Larry do manufactures reach out to writers like yourself and ask for input prior to rolling out something like this. Just seems like this was put together by a couple of Savage folks talking to CSMC and figuring how they could tweak a few things cosmetically and therefore create a new market. The reality is the market is there for a Fox gun that cloned the original in every way except for the possible addition of choke tubes and using steel shot. Just seems like not much research is done before hand, but I could certainly be wrong.
tut, you would be surprised at how often it happens exactly as you imagine it. Happens all the time and it's amazing how little market research goes into stuff. Especially in the "licensed" name end of things. I'm not speaking of guns so much as consumer goods like apparel, footwear and sporting gear. I'm guilty of doing it myself on occasion. You get immersed in a market and figure you know it all or all you need to know anyway. One reason I always liked partners. Hard for all of us to drive off the same cliff the same day.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
Larry do manufactures reach out to writers like yourself and ask for input prior to rolling out something like this. Just seems like this was put together by a couple of Savage folks talking to CSMC and figuring how they could tweak a few things cosmetically and therefore create a new market. The reality is the market is there for a Fox gun that cloned the original in every way except for the possible addition of choke tubes and using steel shot. Just seems like not much research is done before hand, but I could certainly be wrong.
Tut, I didn't have advance warning of this one, for sure! I expect they might have consulted with Michael McIntosh, who was the recognized go-to Fox guy in the gun writing world, were he still alive. Browning did bring a bunch of us together when they brought out the Cynergy, but that was to put the gun through its paces after it had been designed and the prototypes had been produced but before it hit the market. (We did pick up some minor issues they took care of before they started selling the guns.) At that gathering, several of us tried to sell them on the idea of bringing back the BSS. We felt there was a decent market. They passed. Said that all the people who made sxs for Miroku had retired. And I guess, when you consider all the problems Ruger ran into making a sxs when they brought out the Gold Label, that might have made more sense than we thought it did.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,798 Likes: 567
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,798 Likes: 567 |
How would every gun maker like to have been in Rugers bind a few years ago. They had so many orders they stopped taking orders when they exceeded a million plus back orders above their yearly production capacity. To catch up they stopped production of the newly redesigned Red Label and several other models to free up production capacity. Though some hoped the Red Label would return insiders knew it was highly unlikely. Shame the 28 ga was a sweet gun.
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