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Seems like the high end Italian guns are doing just fine with long waiting lists.

Owen was your friend's P&V an O/U?


http://peruginivisiniusa.com/index.asp

I think the picture you are painting is a bit rosy, John. We are entering a time line when just about anything that was sought out by either the greatest generation, or, the Pepsi generation that followed it, is going down in value, doubleguns included. Have you priced John Deere two cylinders, and compared them to what they were worth 20 years ago? How 'bout model A Fords? We have perhaps six, soon to be graduating high school seniors in the neighborhood, who aren't interested in learning to drive, or, owning a car.
We do have a great deal of interest in trap shooting at the high school level,
but, if those kids ever use anything besides a low end O/U or even lower pump, I haven't seen it, and I've been watching.

I don't see anything related to double guns going up in value, long term. Just the opposite.

Hope I'm wrong. But, I don't think I am.


Best,
Ted

I don't think Ted is wrong at all. Demographics reflect recent college grads and those approaching 30 are not interested in encumbering themselves with fixed assets and other stuff other than technology based gadgetry. Most of the younger folks who shoot today have little regard for SxS shotguns and Galazan knows this. It's my belief that older collectors will be disposing of their stuff so their wives won't have to later. Personally the last thing we need is another 1911 manufacturer or double pump gun (whatever that thing is from CSMC) but that seems to be where the money is. Maybe those of us in our 50's will be able to buy SxS's we can sell in our '70s. Not sure who we will sell them to but hey you can't take it with you so enjoy them now.

Ted, I agree 100%. The market for sxs guns has been declining for some time and I believe will continue to fall. As you all know, there is a glut of used sxs guns of all types on the market and many of these guns are priced at 1995-2007 levels- sellers are trying to recoup their cost or perhaps make a little money, a difficult task at best in today's market.

I think today's market for sxs guns is in many ways comparable to the period 1945-80 when the market was more interested in guns with firepower and magazine capacity. The Browning Superposed was one of the few doubles that did well during that time and we all know how that story ended.

Another problem I see is that the people with sufficient, disposable income today are not as interested in or have the opportunity to shoot game. I hope new shooters will eventually develop different attitudes toward the guns we like.

Since 1900 innovation in SXS gunmaking has been in manufacturing efficiency. Making the same product, with the same drawbacks for over 100 years but improving only the manufacturins methods does not indicate mental acuity.

Someone needs to inject some modernity in the SXS, making it owner serviceable, adaptable and repairable to the same degree as current self loaders. Technically it is possible.

The predicted future flood of high end used SXSs deters makers everywhere from new production. Not many would buy a 10K new SXS when they can get a decent used English best for half that sum. Used Italian best sells for much less.

Glad I live in "fly-over country". Those changes haven't made their way here, yet. Side x sides aren't very popular, but then, they haven't been in my lifetime, and I'm 65. So, that's no different. Maybe we are isolated from the ravages of fadism, somewhat, or maybe it is just slower getting here. I agree with the overall assessment of the market for S x Ss, but I see a growing market share for O/Us. The shooting sports are alive and well in the sticks ........... small town South. The high schools and colleges are starting up shotgun shooting programs at an unprecedented rate. Most of these kids begin with a gas gun in elementary or high school, but I see most of them graduating to O/Us as young adults.

Interesting observation about your graduating high school seniors not wanting to own a car, or even drive. I can assure you that is not happening here. Every kid in our part of the world wants to learn to drive by the time they learn to tie their shoes. Many save up and buy an old beater before they even have a learner's license. We see the same thing as far as wanting to own a car, though. It's pickups ......... diesel 4-WD pickups .......lifted and loud. Not just boys, petite little 17 year old girls, too. The market for off the farm used 4-WD trucks is strong, in fact, even a "badge of honor" of sorts, for a kid.

But, as always, what goes on in the big urban areas is what gets the attention. It has been that way as long as I can remember, and I don't see it changing.

SRH

The high end Italian O/U shotguns are doing just fine as noted by various members, why? I believe that you have to get your gun out there into the public with its name splattered all over the shooting sports media,

In other words.

Compete, Win, Repeat.

As often as necessary.

In every picture of Kim Rhode's, what was the first thing you see, PERAZZI.

My friend's P&V was an O/U, as are the two he has on order. I'll try and snap a pic when I see him next. It is very rare at my club to see a new bespoke SxS. I think it is fair to point out that not all the Italians are doing well. The shrinking market may be simply redistributed among the survivors.

I'm a little more optimistic. SxSs have been a niche market for my entire life. When I was young I was the odd one with the SxS and I did not have really good guns until I was much older. 10,000 baby boomers are retiring each day and will continue through 2030. The new SxS buyers are not the young they are the folks reaching there disposable income years. Kids are gone , house is paid for and now it's time have a few nice things. Most of my customers buying their 1st descent SxS are 55 to 75 and that is the fastest growing age group in the country. My opinion is the economy and poor consumer confidence caused the down turn in the market not lake of interest. I have seen an up turn in entry level 12ga extractor guns as consumer confidence has rebounded. Todays Sterlingworth buyer is tomorrows A grade buyer and so it goes.

Probably so, Ted. Might should have waited until I was sober to type that. Like I said previously, half of what I post here shouldn't be taken too seriously. I don't.
JR