I was under the impression that all pre-WWI French Saint-Etienne shotguns were chambered for 6.5 cm (65mm or 2 1/2). I was wrong since I found a 16 gauge 1906 with a 7cm chamber as measured by a chamber gauge and so stamped on the barrel So I copied this post from another board to help try to date guns by their chambers. It might help on the pressure issue.
The first smokeless powder for shotgun shells was Wood powder introduced in 1876. Shotgunners being a hidebound lot were rather slow to embrace smokeless powder, but by the 1890s it was coming on strong. In 1890, Captain A.W. Money came to America from England, and established the American E.C. and Schultze Powder Company in Oakland Park, Bergen County, New Jersey, with offices on Broadway in New York City, to manufacture smokeless shotgun powders.
By their July 20, 1891 price list, Union Metallic Cartridge Co. was offering American Wood or Schultze smokeless powder shotshells.
In 1893, Winchester was providing smokeless powder shells to selected shooters with Winchester offering them to the general public in 1894.
The American ammunition companies held their smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells lower than those offered in the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells. The very heaviest 2 5/8 inch shells I find offered were 3 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 26 grains of dense smokeless powders such as Ballistite or Infallible with 1 1/4 ounces of shot in the early 1900s.
Before 1910, according to the ammunition company catalogues I have, the companies backed off on the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells to nothing heavier than 1 1/8 ounce, and one needed to go to the 2 3/4 inch or longer 12-gauge shells to get 1 1/4 ounce payloads. In 2 3/4 inch and longer shells they offered up to 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powders or 28 grains of Ballistite or Infallible dense smokeless powders with the same 1 1/4 ounce of shot.
These loads were very high pressure according to a DuPont Smokeless Shotgun Powders (1933) book I have. It shows the 3 1/2 drams of DuPont bulk smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot as being 11,700 pounds; 3 1/2 drams of Schultze bulk smokeless powders pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot being 11,800 pounds and the 28-grains of Ballistite pushing the 1 1/4 ounces of shot being 12,600 pounds!!!
There were plenty of lighter loads being offered, but American shotgunners being what they are, I'm sure many were opting for the heaviest loads available. The same situation held with the 20-gauge shells. The "standard" 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried slightly milder loads than the extra cost longer shells in 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3-inch lengths.
Many folks believe that the "modern" shotshells loaded with progressive burning smokeless powders, introduced in the early 1920s, Western Cartridge Company's Super-X loads leading the way, were higher pressure than the old bulk and dense smokeless powder loads. Reading period literature, this is not the case. With progressive burning smokeless powders they were able to move out equal shot loads at higher velocity or a heavier shot load at equal velocity, but at lower pressure than the old style bulk or dense smokeless powders.
In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of paper shotshell lengths is in
1895 catalogue on offer:
10-gauge: 2 5/8 and 2 7/8
12-gauge: 2 5/8 and 2 3/4
16-gauge: 2 9/16
20-gauge: 2 1/2
Sep 1896 catalogue
12-gauge: paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3.
10- and 12-gauge: All brass NPEs in 3 1/4 length.
April 1899 UMC Catalogue:
12 guage: added 3 1/4 "Trap" shell.
16 Guage: added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8
20 Guage: added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8
May 1900 UMC catalogue
16 Guage: added 3 salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and green colored "Trap" shell.
20 Gauge: added 3 salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and green colored "Trap" shell.
So, by 1900 we had
12-gauge: paper shells in 2 5/8; 2 3/4; 2 7/8; 3; and 3 1/4 lengths;
16-gauge: paper shells in 2 9/16; 2 3/4; 2 7/8; and 3 lengths;
20-gauge: paper shells in 2 1/2; 2 3/4; 2 7/8 and 3 lengths.
Last edited by Argo44; 06/28/17 05:24 PM.
