doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 26" v 28" Bbls on SxS Game Guns

2-p, balance each set of barrels and reference CG to breech. Also, measure balance of the gun with each set of barrels; reference CG to (front) trigger.

The trouble with balance is that it is linear - mass times radius. Whereas, MOI is mass times radius squared.

Most shooters I've worked with can learn to estimate MOI once they have been "calibrated" with known guns.

DDA

Mr. Jones,
A couple of slight differences between mine and yours
1) Mine is a 1937 Custom Flatside
2) Mine is a most excellent Skeet gun
A Skeet buddy described it this way,"That's really nice...for robbing stagecoaches"

First, a question.

What was wrong with the Arrieta 20 gauge you were using? Was there a good reason it wasn't working out in the grouse woods?

Now, one by one, to the best of my ability:

I doubt lower grade double guns, especially in 12 gauge, with 26" tubes, will be considered a great investment, or, simply one that holds their value in the future. Of late, I have been rather startled by the actual realized price on very good English sidelock guns at auction, lower than in the past. I suspect this is not what would be considered a growth market. For the hunting you mentioned, either length would be just fine. If you were trying to wring a few more clay targets out of a regular league shoot, the 28" MIGHT work out better. You can find excellent 26" guns for slim money, if you are patient.

Webley made a lot of the 26" guns for the American market. There was a period of time, say from 1965 to 1980, when popular American sports writers were praising short barreled guns for all pursuits. That is why you see them, here. They were what sold.

For grouse and woodcock hunting, there won't typically be a difference noted between 26 and 28" tubes. You don't often get a "swing" in that type of hunting, it is often just a "poke".

Grouse season comes in two different flavors, early and late season. I'm not the guy who has to be out on opening day, swatting mosquitoes, sweating in 80 degree temps, and hearing more birds flush than I see. But, if I were, I'd probably use my 25" barreled Darne 12 gauge, with little and less choke in the barrels. I actually use that gun most of the season, for grouse hunting, anyway, and don't find it to be a handicap.
I haven't shot a woodcock in about a decade. I just don't see as many as I used to, and if the dog handled one superbly, I'd take it, but, she hasn't, yet.

Perhaps you could rent versions of both barrel lengths at your local club, and shoot some 5 stand or grouse walk, and get a better feel for what would work out best for you.

Good luck with whatever you end up with, and keep us posted about how it works out.


Best,
Ted

Awright! Good job on the 100, Bob.

Mine is a kidney pattern, with the standard frame.

Pal of mine has one that also letters from '47, serial numbers about 100 apart, and we have different forend reinforcements.

Mine has the rock elm piece and his has the anchor. They are otherwise identical.

I looked all over hell for a 28" barreled gun. When this one came along in essentially new condition for a realistic price, I didn't hesitate over the barrel length.

Ted is right, the gun writers were praising the short barrels for a decade or so, but everybody wasn't buying what they were selling. Those who would think for themselves, experiment with different barrel lengths and guns, until they found what worked best for them, continued to think for themselves. There will always be those who take what they perceive as an "expert's" opinion to be their own mantra, who don't think for themselves. It's sad there are so many parrots, but it is what it is.

Oftimes, it was not the writers that instigated it, but the gun manufacturers, trying to come up with some new novelty to gain a greater market share, or even create a new mini-market. Pushing 25 and 26" barrels in advertising hype is how they did it, then ...... the gun writers just got on board and helped paddle, as they are wont to do.

SRH

There are many Fox,Paker,Francotte etc 26 inch bird guns from the 20s,30s on up and they are very well suited for me.I only shoot smallbores but do have a 12 ga Win 21 Tournament skeet 26 inch that looks stubby but shoots great,a 32 inch 20 gauge LC Smith that I own is tough to carry. Bobby

R'Man;
I measured those Cg's for the 26" vs the 30" barrels today. 26" barrel balances 9 3/4" ahead of the breech, the 30" ones 10 3/4". So even though 4" difference in length CG moved only 1".
For the assembled gun with 26" barrel CG was 5" ahead of front trigger, with 30" ones 5 3/4" so here CG was changed by only 3/4 inch.

I bought this Lefever 49 years ago (1968). In fact it was the first gun I filed a form 4473 on. Although I was already having my doubts about all those Warnings of That Dangerous Damascus I still was not totally comfortable with shooting them. An outfit in Florida was offering a service of having new steel barrels made in Italy so I decided to take advantage of it. Turn around had been estimated at about 3 months. After my gun was shipped a change in Customs took place which greatly slowed the process & I was near a year getting it back. The service was discontinued on this account so I just got in under the wire.

Barrels are made of Boehler Steel, have a 12 in C for 12ga chamber. Bores are 18.5, choke is marked as 4 stars right & 3 stars left. Wt is KG1.650 (about 3lbs 10 oz).Also carries a cam 70 mark for the 2 3/4" chambers.
Proof have the "Star in Wheel" over PSF / Finito & Gardone Coat of Arms. Proof date code is XXVI. As I recall I was used in 1945 so this barrel set would have been proofed in 1970.

These barrels have the SN & Grade mark of the original stamped on them along with another mark or so from the originals. No marks were applied to the frame or old barrels which I retained. Best I recall I shipped this gun in 1970 & apparently work was completed on schedule, but I did not receive the gun back until well up into 1971. The wait came about apparently due to some kind of "Lay Over" being required for them to clear Customs & leave Italy. The company in Florida, Harding & Knight, was very apologetic about the delay but it was out of their hands. They did keep me informed & didn't just leave me hanging in the Dark.

I highly suspect if it were put on your MOI machine there would be a detectable difference. I shoot one set about as well as the other though so don't worry too much about it. I would have preferred the shorter barrel to have come back about a �lb lighter & been a bio "Quicker". Apparently they did their best to match the weight of the originals which I had not really anticipated. Had I realized this was going to be done would probably have order 28" but never-the-less have been well satisfied with the 26". It has actually been my main gun ever since.

2-p, I think you guess right. I'd be quite surprised if the 30" ers didn't swing a bit slower (higher MOI) than the 26"ers. Not because of the length per se, but because there is weight further away from the gun's CG. The increased balance point of the barrels and of the gun are proof positive of the increased weight forward.

Far as I know, there is no gunmaker who includes swing efforts in his specs. So, we are confined to doing our best in using weight and balance to get as close as we can to a desired MOI. Imagine that you had specified that the gun balance 3/4" back for the 30" barrels. Then, you might well have equal swing effort. This, of course, begs the question, "Do you want equal swing effort for both sets of barrels?" Are the barrels for differing purposes? If so, what kind of handling do you want for each purpose? It seems that you have gotten exactly what you want --- even if by accident.

My idea for developing information about swing effort is to allow shooters to give handling specs to gunmakers and thereby eliminate chance as much as is reasonable.

DDA

I have 4 side-by-sides with 28" barrels, 12 gauge Trojan, 12 gauge Ideal, a M21 12 gauge field grade mfg. 1949, and a 20 Sterlingworth(Utica gun). I don't think I'd care for any of these shotguns with 26" barrels-

I like a 14&1/2" LOP and a long-ish buttstock with 26" barrels looks out of proportion to me. My favorite 12 gauge shotguns have 30" barrels, whether L.C. Smiths or Model 12's- but to each man his own--

A friend has two older M21 skeet guns, a 12 and a 16 gauge, both with 26" barrels choked WS-1 and WS-2-- single trigger, ejector, both made between 1947 and 1950-

If you're a 26"-Man and can't seem to shoot a 28" gun, or conversely, if you're a 28"-Man and you can't shoot a 26" gun worth a hoot - May I suggest it may be psychological?