doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com .410 shotgun shell sensitivity?

I was out playing with the .410 tubes on my Dickenson the other day and I had to buy some shells at the club. They were 2 1/2 Winchesters in 8 1/2 shot and they were very dear (to the tune of $15/box). I stopped grumbling when I started to break some clays with them. I've never been able to shoot any .410 this effectively before. Could it possibly be the shells?

Yes, HARD shot and higher velocity of 1300 fps for the sporting clays AA you were shooting,

Walmart also has them
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Winchester-AA-SuperSport-410-Gauge-Sporting-Clay/16783162

Remember the $2 a box discount plan

http://www.winchester.com/library/special-offers/Pages/2017-AA-Rebate.aspx

Mike

No, it was your shooting.

Yes, those Super Sports are pretty good. Nothing separates reload and factory ammo quality like the .410. IIRC, some skeet gurus used to suggest 0.005" constriction was good enough with factory STS or AAs vs needing at least 0.010" for reloads. I use mostly #8.5s for Sporting but even factory AA #9s are much better than my crappy 205 gr reloads.

Anyway yeah, it was you.

Any ideas why that should be so, Sam?

My experience differs.

I use the best shot available in .410 reloads.

My handloads using Lawrence, West Coast, or STS (when I can find it) are all every bit the equal of anything the factories load and better than the imported crap. Rio isn't even close to the performance of my handloads.

It's no trick to run a .410 over 1300 fps if you want, and there's hardly any excuse for not reaming your shot bar to drop half an ounce.

The AA .410 is king of the hill in factory ammunition, but reloads using that case should be equal to it.

I use .002 choke and reload import 9's. Last time I shot a pattern it was 30 inches at 20 yards and had super dispersion. Academy charges 8.95 for AA 410's.
bill

Well, all I had used to this point were inexpensive Rios and Herters .410 loads in the gun so.... maybe it was the shells. Why is the .410 so susceptible to less than top-notch loads?

It's because of the shot hardness factor Lloyd, primarily. The .410 is more subject to shot deformation due to setback because of the proportionately longer length of it's shot column. The longer the shot column the worse the bottommost pellets get "squashed".

The harder the shot, or buffering the shot, lessens the degree of shot deformation and so improves the patterns. Premium loads with harder shot usually equal improved patterns with less fliers outside the useful part of the pattern.

SRH

Probably multifactorial. It gets discussed on both the skeet and reloading SGW subforums. For decades NSSA skeeters have written there, and elsewhere, about it. The HS hull's been around some time now, but prior to it's appearance most wrote adamantly about superiority of the STS factory loads. Guys from our club who had lessons said they were told to use factory STS-only in .410 competition.

I didn't form an opinion until started shooting NSCA. My reloads w/Win Magnum #9 in CF AAs worked well enough on a skeet field. But they're not in the same galaxy with STS or Super Sports when pushed to 35 yds or more.

You're right about the payload. The 205 gr drop comes from one I hogged out some. Should do more surgery, I suppose. The unmolested 1/2 oz 502 throws about 185 gr with Win #9. Much closer to 1/2 oz with Eagle but that stuff is pretty soft. In 12s need to choke up to get equivalent breaks vs West Coast or Lawrence.

Then there's hulls vs payload. NSSA rules allow a certain % over on payload, so you could push the shot charge beyond 1/2 oz. Bill Murphy has written about this here, not sure what hull he was using. NSCA does not allow the same "deal", and getting even the full 1/2 oz into a CF hull has frustrated me.

NSCA game pushes #9 shot size. A practical consideration is unreliable 1/2 oz shot drops from a 9000 with anything larger than #9 - bridging and messes.

I agree concerning "budget" .410 ammo. We've seen Estates come apart at base on first firing. Not something I want with a Model 42.

Sam, in your opinion are 9s large enough to do the job reliably on most NSCA sub-gauge .410 courses? There were a couple birds on a course I shot last weekend that I have my doubts about, but admit I could have been wrong.

I agree about the shot bridging problem in a 9000. Is it worth the extra trouble to go with 8 1/2s, or 8s, when reloading them?

SRH

An ounce had 437.5 grains in it. So the standard .410 1/2 load should have 218.75 grains in it. With the .410 every pellet does count. I'd take a file and open up that charge bar.

When I started reloading we had very few choices in the .410 and most were lucky to get near factory loads under the best circumstances. Today we have so many more choices in wads, primers, powders and empties. But the most important thing is to used the hardest shot you can.