doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Punt Guns

My experience with hand starting a tractor was mostly limited to the flywheel method on the John Deere's. This was quite safe. In later years I acquired a JD model L (about 10 HP) & model M (about 20 HP). Both of these had vertical engines & used a handcrank up front. By this time I had already been taught the "ONLY" way to properly crank an engine was to pull upward only, never go around as if Winding It Up. If it kicks back that's when you end up with a broken arm or wrist.

Jon, when they started that 30-60 I mentioned there was nothing belted to it, I just didn't see how they did it, probably by the flywheel method. Yes the belting method is a very good one when dealing with old engines today, have seen it done numerous times though on much smaller tractors. When these old monsters were actually being used to farm with though, that's not how they started them.

Some of the older,pre- Diesel, Caterpillars were started by standing on the track & sticking a crow bar into a hole around the rim of the exposed flywheel. That always seemed particularly dangerous to me, but apparently it worked.
When I was in my teens I used to help a neighbor saw his winter wood with what we called a Cut-Off or Pole Saw. It was belted to a Fairbanks Morse engine, though this one was throttle governed rather than hit & miss. At one point I had a small Hercules (1 3/4 HP) hit & miss engine. Never actually used it for anything, would just fire it up occasionally to hear it run. Finally sold it.

I have some of those starter cartridges which Eley made. I took one to bits and there is just a powder load but the 'powder' was in the form if short dark brown cylindrical stuff about 1mm. diameter by about 3mm. long. Lagopus.....

Lagopus;
I once saw a British Field Marshal early diesel tractor. This had a single horizontal cylinder with crosswise crankshaft. these was two methods of starting it, one was with a 12 gauge blank shell inserted into the cylinder head.
The other method was you lifted a lever which held the valve open & placed it on the rim of the flywheel which had a spiral groove cut into its periphery. A different hollow plug was now removed from the head. A piece of paper was rolled up & placed in the plug & lit. With paper burning plug was reinserted, a crank was placed in the fly wheel & turned like crazy. As the spiral groove led the lever off the flywheel, it then dropped putting it back on compression. Momentum f the flywheel would bring the piston over center "!" time, it either started or didn't. The gentleman showing it started it by this method while I was there. t fired up on his 2nd attempt. As I recall was in the 40 HP range. Very interesting tractor, not many of them in the US.

Not a punt gun, but this is how sounds 1000 grams of blackpowder:

http://www.hunting-heritage.com/blog/index.php/2016/12/31/happy-new-year-2017-big-bore-from-1811/

Have a look at the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgT2kSoTK4&feature=youtu.be

Cheers,
Gunwolf

Don't think I have ever seen it addressed but, because the purpose of a punt gun was singlefold, that being to kill as many ducks as possible with a single shot, am I correct in assuming that they were cylinder bored .......... with no choke at all? Or, was some choke necessary in order to "reach" the rafts of ducks they were sculling up on?

SRH

Stan-
I have seen them in a couple museums in Maryland where the barrels were flattened to make a wider pattern.
Black powder loads suggested included a rag for a wad, and pebbles, nuts, and nail stubs for projectiles.

I have a scull boat here, and when I was sculling regularly, it was no difficulty getting alongside a raft. (L,S,&B BrantII) Open water ducks just aren't super wary.

There are some sculling videos on youtube.

I like it because you can "Spot and Stalk" your quarry.

I haven't re-read this thread, but also remember that this style of gunning was performed to great effect in the SPRING, just another reason it was outlawed.

Most were muzzle loaders and I don't think the breech loaders had choke either. Load was a very coarse grain black powder, oakum wadding; which was teased out hemp rope into fibres, and large shot equivalent to buck shot. 20 to 30 ducks at a shot would be considered good work. According to the British Association for Shooting & Conservation (B.A.S.C.)survey punt gunners average 7 trips a season and average 4 shots a season for an average of 16 birds. I strongly doubt the previous post mentioning 1,000 plus birds as it would mean that every pellet just about would have to find a vital spot with none missing a bird. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/features/punt-gunning-15129 Lagopus.....

When I scull, there is a lot going on.

I usually come in from upwind, which can be quite a task without a tow craft.

Then, we approach to about 40 yards, presenting the needle-like nose of the boat to the birds. The boat is 13" tall, and about 40" wide. Battleship gray, with contrasting wave lines.

The front gunner is laying back with just the bill of his cap above the gunwall.

Here's where it gets tricky.

I need to maneuver the boat 90 degrees to the gunners side for me to be able to shoot also.

We use the birds running up into the wind, as well as our position, to NOT FLOCK SHOOT. or Not drown in the process either.

A large raft can cover you with birds as they panic.

It takes some discipline to scull for more than a mile, and then not blow the shot.

A punt gun would cut a wide swath through the raft for sure.
You'd spend the rest of an afternoon chasing cripples.

Fun sounding tactic CZ. Depending, I could image it could be tough to slow the scull boat down if the wind is pushing a bit.

edit to add, I think it would be a good thing for historical connection to have a national random draw permit system for a small hand full of punt gun hunts in areas that have good count projections.

It might seem counter-intuitive, but you want the raft up and running for mass slaughter. Not "Sitting ducks".

Old guys used a lateen sail on their sculls to get up-wind, and then stowed it, using it as a spray shield, as the stalk was/is commenced.

13" is not a lot of freeboard.

It's trophy waterfowling when applied today.
Scary, unique, and you target Bull Cans, etc. in the mid afternoon sun.
Here's a great video showing the maneuvering and the shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIhsi_evFK0

Substitute a punt gun for 2 12 ga's.

I wear a Stearns floatation suit, and of course always have a guy on a radio.
It's a little easier these days, because the radio man can troll for walleye's while I scull.

You gotta like "old school" to do it.