doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Defective factory shells

I�ve had no less than 3 duds this year already. All 3 were 12 bore, 2.5� B&P high Pheasant. Primers fully dented...tried all 3 in the other barrel, they just wouldn�t detonate. 2 different guns used. I�ve shot B&P�s a long time, these were the first 12 gauge shells of theirs to not work.

I have had precious few duds in my lifetime of shotgunning. It's been so long since I had one I cannot even remember when it was. I shoot mostly Estate, RIO and Fiocchi brands nowadays. Quality is excellent on them all.

Something that was very interesting to me was that when you go to Argentina to hunt, you shoot Argentine shells, manufactured in country. Last time I was there my shell count was around 5200. Not one misfire. These boxes may look cartoonish, but they contained high quality ammo.





SRH

I've fired many many thousands of factory shotshells over the years and can't recall a single dud amongst them. I've fired maybe a thousand or two reloads with no dud primers, but last year I had 5 dud shells using 700-X, all happening at matches (of course). The two at the Southern cost me those birds. The primer pushed the wad and shot out, but I poured the unburned powder out of the hull and barrel. It never ignited

I haven't seen any split heads on AA 28's lately. What I have seen is that when I reload them, while they have good case mouth life, the hulls will often split along the side. STS . . . I'm a big Remington fan in both 20 and 12, but I've seen reloaded STS 28's where the hull has separated from the head. You know that right away if you're using a double when you pop out the empties (assuming you look at them). But I'd be REALLY cautious with reloaded STS 28's in a pump or auto.

Interesting about the Estate misfire. I reload way more Cheddite primers than anything else, and I can't recall any misfires.

Had misfires with Remington gun Club 20's, sent it back to Remington and they reported that my new K-80 was defective. Started a second flat of Gun Club 20's and the primers were pierced in a high percent. Fixed the problem have not shot a gun club in years. I now shoot about 30 flats of Estate 20's a season.

bill

Idle curiosity on my part, but what powder are you using for the .410, Shotgun?

I've had and seen the AA 28's w/split brass heads NIB, before ever firing! I attributed it to a finer gauge material being used initially, but discovered for whatever reason that those not split reloaded just fine & for multiple times, so I've made no finite conclusion about the causal issue. I do know it happens, or was in any case. I've not shot nor ordered any new 28 AA's in well over a year now, so can't speak to present status.

For reloading both 28's & .410's, I like the older Federal hulls and send them to the trash bin when they get ugly looking or split at the mouth. I also like the now unobtanium Federal .410 primers for both. I use 296 in the .410's and Unique in the 28's.

On FTF's [failure to fire], I've had very few over tens of thousands of rounds, inclusive of new ammunition and reloads. I recently had the very first reload using Fiocchi 616 primers fail to fire. I suspect, but can't prove that the hull may have had some water/moisture in it when reloaded and the primer was compromised rather than any 'defect' being involved at all.

In the FWIW Dept.. I suspect that most reloads experiencing 'issues' were either loaded on machines that did not seat the primer like a MEC single stage does, applying pressure directly to the base wad on a hull that was just resized by a 'ring-type' sizer or it involved a contaminated hull when it was loaded. Residual moisture or other contaminate(s) could affect either powder or primer or both. I can remember when the word was that primers w/o covered holes were prone to becoming filled w/ball powders & failing because of it. I never experienced that phenomena once. I also recall that the old Alcan 220 Max-Fire primers had covered flash holes when no others did. I bought and loaded the components most readily available to me at the time and w/the most attractive prices. Still do.

Personal opinion is that both ammunition and components presently available to shooters is of very high quality,if one is buying quality ammunition and components to begin with. Go to items being made to a 'price point' and you may not get the same level of performance or reliability. Stated issues w/AA28 heads splitting points to cross-over thinking, IMHO w/less than acceptable results, for a time at least.

addendum: I too have seen AA hulls get longitudinal splits in the plastic body, but only in 12 ga. and only when the person loading was using very 'hot' loads, like 1350fps+ in 24gram Bunker loads. Have never had it happen to me w/a 12 nor seen that in a AA28 hull, but mine are limited to 3/4oz. target loads and not being loaded for pheasant, duck or larger game birds. #7.5 is the largest shot size I've ever loaded in a 28ga.

Unfortunate you had those problems. The good thing about Gun Clubs (both 12 and 20) is that the hulls reload very well. Not much difference in terms of hull life to STS.

I don't reload AA 12's. I've got a bunch of Remingtons (mostly Gun Clubs) and have no problems with them, so I don't bother with anything that's not green in 12ga--with the exception of Gold Medal hulls which I use for low pressure pheasant loads (around 7,000 psi) using Unique. I only reload 28ga target loads. 3/4 oz, very light load of 20/28 (12.2 grains). If I want heavier/hotter 28ga loads--and I don't use the 28 at all on wild pheasants--I go with factory stuff.

I use 2400 in 410. I've used 296/H110 also, but they don't do anything 2400 won't at a lower cost. Hull life is the same, although individual experience and/or perceptions seem to vary quite a bit on hull life observations. Personally, I don't use anything but AA hulls in 410. Use what you want, It's fine with me.

12 and 20 gauge Remington crimps last so long now that hull burn through is usually the reason for retirement, especially in 20 gauge. I keep hulls in batches by number of firings (although I don't actually count how many) and when a few burn through, I discard the batch. They are great component hulls, perhaps the best shell ever made. I fear our STS brass head is economically doomed however. Thus, I likely have accumulated a lifetime supply.

I finally had a Fiocchi 616 not fire also. It was just this year, although the primers were obtained 5 years ago. They are a good primer. I avoid Cheddite due to piercing in my Brownings.

No product is perfect, but I agree that modern shells and components are very good indeed.

I've changed mostly to 300mp for .410. Low pressure, good patterns, better velocity and much better hull life. If you come across a can give it a try. Hulls last much longer with it.