doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What's the biggest problem ..........updated

Excellent thought, coosa. I think you re right about it being impossible to have a S x S that is perfectly regulated with all loads, especially turkey loads like you're using. They can be regulated for the majority of field loads, however.

I totally agree that regulation can't be determined by the price you pay for a gun. My little Yildiz Elegante 4's regulation is as perfect as anybody can ask for, with anything from 1/2 oz. to 11/16 oz. loads ............... and it was on sale NIB for $400 about five years ago.

I'd offer what I mentioned back in a previous post on this thread, that most of my vintage S x S guns have been nicely regulated, and I've never patterned a Fox that wasn't. Your issue is that you're probably trying to get them to regulate with very heavy turkey loads, and few, if any, are built to do that.

Thanks, SRH

Higher powered load + lower swing effort (lower MOI) = higher torque effect. Lower powered load + higher swing effort = lower torque effect.

Cross-firing = lower torque effect + higher convergence. Divergent firing = higher torque effect + lower convergence.

DDA

I remember ready an article in one of the popular outdoor magazines many years ago. They were testing the point of aim as the barrel heated up. From cold to hot the POA changed by 8 inches. I can't remember the distance they were shooting at or the gun but it was a single barrel gun. Wonder if that can be repeated and it it has any effect on double guns?

Stan, I agree on all points and understand that my biggest problem on turkey loads is that I am trying to use the guns in a manner for which they were not designed. Most of the guns I've tried have been very cheap, but I am yet to find one that isn't decently regulated for field loads as far as right/left. I have a couple of guns that shoot low and that is a difficult problem to fix. But they both shoot everything low; it's not the too heavy load issue.

Even with the barrels chopped off to 24" and rethreaded for the Tru-choke system, my little Yildiz will center 1 oz loads. Obviously, that's what they made it to shoot.

If you are real perfectionist, you can spend some time testing your sxs with different loads and likely find a load that each barrel will center. I've found that with some of my 20 gauge guns the left barrel would center a 1 oz load and the right barrel would need a 7/8 oz load. But these differences were usually only an inch or two and not likely to be an issue for any sort of wing shooting. Being off center 8 to 10 inches at 40 yards was not unusual with my turkey loads, and that won't work.

I had some idea of what I was getting into when I decided I wanted a very light sxs turkey gun. Now I have a couple, but I would have to admit it's been much harder than I expected. I would guess that the L-R issue would not be so bad in something like a Winchester 21, but I haven't tested one so that's just a guess.

Great discussion. I learned quite a bit. Thanks to all who participated. Gil

Just to put my perspective on things I have only been able to go to the expense of having one shotgun regulated. It was my Purdey Bar in wood and the only reason that I considered having this done was the barrels where not in the best of condition at the start of its restoration some 50 years ago. Both top and bottom ribs had to be removed plus a replacement forend securing loop had to be fitted. It was a no brainer to have it done the point of impact for the two barrels was to be tested and adjusted if necessary, but more importantly was the pellet density in a 30inch circle at forty yards, seeing that both barrels were of true cylinder. The outcome came between 119 and 128 pellets in the circle so you could assume you should expect results somewhere between the two given figures. Though more importantly was the fact that the gun would only be consistent with the cartridges that where used at the time, with a recommendation that the same cartridges should whenever possible in the future. I was billed for 100 cartridges and when the gun was returned after restoration two boxes of unused cartridges accompanied the gun, I somehow never wanted to use them so they will accompany the gun together with the documentation to its next owner.
As the gun is chambered for 2 � inch cartridges I can only assume that the best results were with these Eley 2inch number 7shot 1oz load having Fibre wads and rolled turnover.
Though I have found 2 � low velocity cartridges with 1oz 6 or 7 shot loads having crimp closure and felt wads give very good repeatable results.

Damascus, I can understand using traditional cartridge design similar to the ones used at the time the gun was built. However, would it not make sense to try modern plastic wads or maybe you have already done that. I have not tried comparing the results but according to the reading of various threads on this board the plastic wads will give you the equivalent of a tighter choke. If this worked, it might make the gun more versatile, maybe for longer shots.

I would like to read that article if you ever run across it again, Tamid. I'd be willing to bet it was a ribbed barrel on which the rib was "hard fastened", and not floating.

I could not tell any impact shift on my Beretta 687 SPII Sporting 20 ga. in Argentina. I would shoot hard for three hours at a time, averaging a round every 6.7 seconds, according to shell count. That is purely anecdotal, but if there had been a big impact shift, and I call 8" big, I think I would have noticed something amiss, especially on incomers at 12 o'clock.

SRH

I found it to be worse in O/Ur's....

Stan,

Tried to find that article on line but no luck. There is lots of information on POI shift in rifles and some reference to shotguns but not a dedicated research article just pertaining to shotguns.