doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hardware store small gauge pioneers

I have a Winchester 97 Trench gun from WWI.

I grew up shooting this gun and a model 12 20ga for rabbits and phesants. I could see why someone thinks of a 97 as fearsom.

It was the Model 97 trench gun that the germans feared, I believe, according to the History Channel. Let's get back on the subject. I am sure there are many good memories out there. Chops

Yes Sir !!!
I already apologized.:}
Best,
John

As usual Mr. Mann you are correct it was the Model 97 that the Germans thought 'Barbaric'!!! Ah Chopper we are on topic I believe, why in the midst of the coveted 12 gauge era did Winchester unveil its mighty Model 12 in 20 gauge!!! A proverbial slap in the face to the 12 gauge or was it the era of the 12 gauge???
All the best

Oh yes, Ole' Santa. Lets get back on topic: '...there isn't anything you can do with the 20 that cannot be accomplished with twice the efficacy swinging a 12. If you want to argue the matter of weight. I'll produce a 6 pound 12; the average 20 these days runs 61/2 pounds. And on the score of cartridge I'll find a 12-gauge cartridge, that runs a mere 2 inches for length and poops out a trifling 1 ounce of shot.'
PS. There is a thread on SSBBS regarding 20br 'Knockabout'. I wish I could help him buy a 12br and save some $. I mean, those Belgian Francotte 'Keeper Grade' guns are already light enough in 12 br, so why pay extra and get less pooh?
Herr Mann, perhaps you could post there. I think they finally canned me!

Wish I could think of an intro line that would answer the SSBBS query. Can't, so won't start a new thread on that subject. Haven't posted there is a long time. Too many friends and friendly enemies have been sent to Coventry. Soon they will have no seasoning in their duck soup.
Now to the topic.
The idea of why so many small gauge vintage (how I hate that word when not used with wine !!!) SxSs were built, sold and are still around is very interesting. I have stated that , in my thinking, it was a Cultural thing when the guns were new.
The game of Skeet then came along and kept the ball rolling for all but the 16 gauge.
As to why guys want these smaller guns, I can only assume is the reason that I have some. They are neat and one needs them to fill out the collection.
I can't agree that the 410 is short of poop when used in the right place and on the right game at the right distance. I think, in the hands of a superb wingshot, at 20/25 yards, it is about as elegant as can be. Many pen raised ring necks and many more quail have been taken with them. Let's agree that the shooter MUST be of high caliber, though.
I think I may go now and bury this horse.:}
Best,
John

I picked up an American Gun Co. .410 Midget-framed hammer gun a few years ago... Cute little thing...Anyone have any early memories about learning to shoot with one of these Hardware store treasures?..........

Found this old thread on google. Oddly, I had not read it before. Even more odd that Ortolan did not mention that he, I, and others we know own 28 gauge Parkers that came from the William Wagner establishment in Washington. In the early days of Parker promotion of the "new" 28 gauge, Wagner probably ordered a good percentage of the total output of 28 gauge guns from the Parker Brothers. Some Wagner orders for a couple of dozen Parkers of mixed size and configuration included a half dozen or more 28s.

Bill-I hope your still enjoying that 28. To think it almost lived behind a truck seat as a rabbit gun. I bought the GH 12 from Doug and shoot it often. We both ended up with great guns.Thanks for being a good guy to my friends.

My late old friend Henry Thomas of Federal Oak Farm, Charles County, Maryland, passed his Father's Quail gun on to me in the late 1980s --



I'm guessing the Thomas family English Setters must have held Mr. Bob plenty close for this cylinder bore 28-gauge.

Here is the page for low end smallbores from the 1912 SD&G catalogue --



Here are some other catalogue pages for little guns prior to WW-I --