doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Questions about steel shot and choke tubes

There is some hope here kids of working classes are learning that field shorts are not only for the privileged......

Pretty sure #6 size and smaller steel (anything smaller than #7 is worthless, may not even be made any smaller) won't hurt these guns if shot through chokes no tighter than .015. Could be wrong about that.
JR

Seems as tho I recall reading some Limey tract and ref was made to Limey steel proofs. I could be wrong. Salopian would prolly know.

As to thinwall choke tubes done by anyone. My feeling is that they are The Work of Satan and I will not have them in my guns. I would be incredibly wary of pushing steel thru any of them as well. Factory steel noted tubes are quite another thing.

CIP 12g 76 mm = 3� LEAD �High performance/Superior Proof�
Service 1050 BAR = 15,229 psi
Maximum statistical individual pressure 1200 BAR = 17,405 psi
Magnum proof 1320 BAR = 19,145 psi
12g STEEL regulations: the barrels should carry the High Performance Steel Fleur de Lys stamp and be marked �Steel Shot�
http://www.chircuprodimpex.ro/produse/al...-ammunition.pdf

Italy is a member of CIP, but according to Gerhard Wirnsberger, �The Standard Directory of Proof Marks� in 1962 established Standard Proof at 12,801 psi (probably by LUP/crushers) indicated by a �star over PSF� AND �Superior Proof� at 17,637 psi, with �2 stars over PSF� marks.
�Superior Proof� is mandatory for chambers longer than 70mm = 2 3/4�.
FABARM voluntarily proof tests to 1630 BAR = 23,641 psi
http://www.fabarm.com/web_eng/caratteristiche-dettaglio-1630.asp

Great Britain adopted the 1969 Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes � Feu Portatives standards March 1, 1980.

Why?? They'll get the ammo they need when money is no object.

Just to answer a few questions raised. As far as I am aware any of the current British Gunmakers will make you a gun fit for steel shot. Longthorne Hesketh www.longthorneguns.com and Boxall & Edmiston www.boxallandedmiston.co.uk reckon their guns will stand steel shot through their full choke barrels.

Yes, the London and Birmingham Proof Houses both steel shot proof guns and have done for some years. It consists of a Fleur-de-le symbol and two crowns over the letters 'SUP' for superior proof also the words 'steel shot' and the chamber length. Just looking at one my guns; a Turkish Hatsan semi-auto that was steel shot proofed in Birmingham in 2001. Lagopus.....

When breechloaders replaced muzzleloaders, the muzzleloaders were relegated to the closets, or the poor folks.

When smokeless powder replaced black powder, the damascus guns were mostly retired from the field, unless nitro proofed or sleeved. No more new damascus guns were made.

There are likely new best guns made in Britain for two and and a half inch twelve gauge ammo, but I'd bet the overwhelming majority of exported best guns made in Britain, and virtually all the best guns made elsewhere in 12 gauge are two and three quarter inch chambered,,,,for shell availability.

Already, cheap repeaters are the rule shooting wildfowl in America, because of nontoxic shot regulations. But a light game gun never was a wildfowl gun, anyway.

Light game guns are taken to the places where they can still be shot several hundred times or more in a day. They require being able to shoot the readily available ammunition. If they can't, they stay in the vault back home, or get replaced with a shotgun that can shoot the ammo that's available.

It may be, that shooting small steel shot, say size seven or six, is not a problem with the existing soft soldered double guns with fixed chokes, for target use. But I'm only going to shoot that stuff when lead shot is regulated away.

If I were the King, then nontoxic shot would be outlawed, and lead shot mandated, for shotguns. Nontoxic shot regulations are by far and away the greatest threat to our beloved old fixed choke guns.

But I ain't the King, and won't ever be.

The Missouri Department of Conservation takes a bunch of Mossberg 500 twenty gauge guns, and big buckets of 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells, to teach youngsters how to shoot shotguns on the ranges here in Missouri. They've outlawed lead shot on all public lands, too.

Missouri is a gun friendly state.

Think about the places, that aren't gun friendly.

Steel shot is coming. It's the only metal that is cheap enough to replace lead for common use for practical shotgun use.

Common use for common folk like us. these people ain't common folk. They'll get their ammunition lead or otherwise you needn't worry.

A question for somebody from Britain, the mother of best guns.

What are the nontoxic shot regulations in Britain, if any?

When the Prince of Wales has to shoot steel shot,,,,so will all his buddies.:)

It varies slightly. In England and Wales non-lead shot must be used for shooting ducks and geese (species specific) In Scotland and Northern Ireland the rules are that non-lead shot must be used over wetlands (area specific). Wetlands are basically rivers lakes and marshland. The differences are because of devolved government. Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland have their own parliament or legislature. Ironically England does not which means Members of Parliament from the other three U.K, countries can vote on English issues but English M.P.'s are forbidden to vote on issues which are only specific to the other three. Very frustrating when the Scots decide to scupper something that does not in any way affect them just to spite the English. That's politics I suppose. Slightly off the target but explains why there are differences in the regions. In all cases lead cannot be used below high water mark on the coast or on Sites of Special Scientific Interest or SSSI's.

Royalty are not exempt; except for the Queen and she doesn't shoot wildfowl as far as I know.

I know someone who uses a punt gun for wildfowling and by necessity loads his own. The only shot that will carry for punt gunning; other than lead, is Tungsten Polymer and he reckons it costs him �90 per shot.

This explains things far better than I can. https://basc.org.uk/lead/ Lagopus.....