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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
A great many of those German guns, never had intercepting sears, they were built with over hanging sears. Two different concepts entirely. Thank you. I thought screw behind breast or ball of German gun was part of intercepting safety mechanism just like it is on Birmingham piece.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,988 Likes: 895
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,988 Likes: 895 |
Hunting guns should not have a trigger so light that it jars out of bent when dropped, or in a fall. Target guns are different, and are used under much more controlled circumstances. When I lighten a trigger on a gun I test it, unloaded of course, by bumping the butt on the floor or ground, solidly enough to simulate a drop or fall. I hit the side of the buttstock with my hand, in short I do everything I can to cause it to jar out of bent. If it is under 4 lbs., and passes my tests, I feel pretty good about it. I've never had one to fail except for one which had a soft tumbler and wouldn't "hold" the adjustments I did.
SRH I always get nervous when I hear guys talking about the 2-3 lb letoff triggers in their game guns. Mostly bit my tongue and never said much. If I am not mistaken it was Carlos Hathcock himself who opined that under 5 lbs was too light, period, and his "hunting" had much more on the line than any of mine ever did. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
I should have stated that a bit clearer. For me, a safe 3# shotgun trigger is a dream come true. Anything under 4# is great, if it's crisp and clean. YMMV.
SRH
Last edited by Stan; 01/26/18 10:27 AM.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Most Repeating/SA arms whether rifle or shotgun simply do not lend themselves well to auto safeties, one would defeat their whole purpose. A double does lend itself to one. I have no problems with non-auto safeties but when one is so readily available I also see no use of depriving myself of whatever benefits it has, I Like them on my Hunting doubles.
Personally I NEVER EVER walk around in the fields & forests with an open gun, if you meet me afield expect to see my gun closed. If some precarious footing warrants it I will unload, then re-close the gun before preceding. A bad fall with an open gun has far greater potential of causing damage than to one closed & bolted. The worst fall I ever took while hunting I was carrying my FE Lefever, loaded & bolted. Though it hit the ground very hard it did not fire, nor suffer any damage other than a minor scratch or so.
Sear notches "Should" be placed as far from the sear axle as possible. I have several guns so set up. A J P Sauer & Sons/VL&D back action sidelock (lock plates shaped like a bar action) has the sears notches on their outer periphery with vertical sears. All of my Lefevers have the sear notches so placed with early ones having plate mounted sears & later ones frame mounted, but in both cases overhanging. None of these guns have intercepting sears & in my humble opinion, do not need them.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 207 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 207 Likes: 2 |
Thank's LeFusil, I'd forgotten about Continental guns with over hung sears. Just shows you have to do some research when interested in purchasing a gun. English "game guns" in my collection have triggers set at right around 3.5 for the front and 4 for the back. nice and clean and the gun fires when my brain says "bang". Much heavier and I start to wonder what went wrong. Once you get use to a specific trigger pull range it's hard for me to adjust to much heavier pull weights. Under that range and they are way too light for hunting and the clays course. Maybe it's just too many years shooting Bullseye pistol and Highpower rifles in competition.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 970 Likes: 40
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 970 Likes: 40 |
What exactly is being made safe by blocking trigger movement no one has explained. Plenty of auto safe guns have gone off on closing with the safety automatically ON.
Safeties were conceived to make passing the gun between "gun" and loader a little safer in case of a fumbled pass.
Not having a loader I do not trust the safety.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
What exactly is being made safe by blocking trigger movement no one has explained. Plenty of auto safe guns have gone off on closing with the safety automatically ON. A gun that discharges on closure has a bent/sear problem. It is NOT the fault of the safety. An intercepting safety would usually prevent this. Some guns are maladjusted so that there is movement between the bent and sear when the safe is ON so that when the trigger is pulled when on safe it will fire when the safe is released. In essence that trigger has already been pulled. This is also the result of a poorly adjusted firing mechanism. But the safety mechanism will get the blame.
C Man Life is short Quit your job. Turn off the TV. Go outside and play.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 970 Likes: 40
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 970 Likes: 40 |
Famous man eater hunter, Jim Corbett, wrote that he never carried a cocked gun, he always had the safety on. Read it in the Man Eating Tigers of Kumaon. This from an experienced hunter is shocking, imagine what the inexperienced think about the magic powers of that safety button!
Yes, a safety is not directly involved in the cocking system. Which is exactly why it should not be trusted!
A safety, hammer intercepting or trigger blocking, does NOT make the gun safe. Which perhaps explains all armie's insistence on "making safe" which does not involve the safety at all.
Last edited by Shotgunlover; 01/24/18 07:50 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
One of the famous professional hunters carried his bolt gun loaded, but uncocked. All that was required was a quick movement of the bolt handle up and down to recock the piece. He also had the "safety" off. This may have been Corbett, or an African PH.............can't recall.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 602 Likes: 39
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 602 Likes: 39 |
[quote=Shotgunlover]"Famous man eater hunter, Jim Corbett, wrote that he never carried a cocked gun, he always had the safety"
Corbett may have been talking about a hammer gun with a "stalking safety" which is a sliding bolt that locks the hammer in the half cock bent & off the firing pin or cap in the case of a percussion gun otherwise his statement does not make sense as most hammerless doubles & bolt action guns won't allow you to apply the safety on an uncocked gun (Note that I said most because you can apply the side trigger blocking safety on an uncocked Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle if so equipped but not the bolt mounted wing safety so I guess that is another possibility).
No substitute for having the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
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