doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W.W. Greener Trap Gun ???

I am not yet certain of the build date but the gun's serial number is 264XX. This would seems to make is a couple of years past the expiration of the patent expiration for the rebounding hammers. Therefore, my guestimate of 1882/83.
It does have a dolls head.
I find it very interesting that these guns were built for the American market. Wonder what made America's pigeon shooters more interested than those of other countries. Did Greener build the same gun, with a different model designation for the home market?
The fact that the original load for pigeon shooting was a 10 gauge shell, it must be that the 12 gauge Trap Gun models were possibly meant for waterfowl. ????
Best,
John

Friend John,

Please re-read my statement on flyer loads/ 10ga. lest it be further misconstrued or perhaps I was inept in word choice. The standard 'load' for a 10 was 1 & 1/4oz. of shot and normally 3 & 1/4 DE or 1200 FPS. That load was used in 10's as a flyer load as well as the general all 'round waterfowl load with appropriate sized shot. Most 10's had 2 &7/8" chamberings. Tens were built and used as pigeon guns early on. Gauge was an option, the max load was fixed. 'Trap guns' by def were pretty much ALL pigeon guns prior to 1900 as there simply was not sufficient use of clay targets to justify the term being used in any other context prior to that. Going from memory [a big gamble, that] the ATA Grand American was still live birds until just after the turn of the century.

I may well be mistaken, but want to say that the first 'Trap Gun' in the modern context, meaning expressly built for clay target shooting, was a single bbl gun and perhaps the Baker, but will defer to those more historically bent to answer that. I think the term 'trap gun' and 'pigeon gun' are pretty much interchangable prior to 1900, certainly in the early 80's they would have been. In fact, I would guess that the marking 'Trap Gun' was the made for the American market part of the Greener statigem.

FWIW, I traded off a 10 ga. Bonehill 'Pigeon Gun' so marked w/reversed triggers earlier in the year. I think the term 'pigeon gun' was more a Brit term initially, and over time came to infer a high or higher grade in its connotation in addition to being the first purpose built and marketed competition shotguns.

Couple of thoughts on the American market aspect. This Greener was considered a lower half gun of their production range. Box birds seems to have been much more an every man's sport in the U.S. than in the U.K. A moderately priced gun for this market would make sense; particularly a market which Greener was already penetrating successfully with its heavy working guns. Also, in the pre-nitro era, 1 1/4 ounces was the standard 10 bore load. A big Greener, moderately priced, would seem to be a pretty viable option. With the arrival of nitro powders, the 90's saw a real blossoming of guns to support the popularity of box bird shoots. It also meant that relatively light (and thus quick) 12 bores could take on the role of throwing 1 1/4 ounces of 7.5's in a pigeon ring. Thereafter, the old 10 bore hammer guns ended up in attics, duck blinds or the turkey woods.

I also have one in 12 ga. Graham Greener told me that mine was made in 1880 and has a 23000 Serial # range.Mine was sold thru Aberchrombie and Fitch and I suspect they were all ordered by A&F as a special item to supply the enthusiasts of Bogartus and Kimble etc.for the American Market

Thanks for the clarifications, fellows. I now understand more fully.
Stallones: That is the exact same gun. It is a beauty.
Hope all goes well with you.
Best,
John

Weren't the 10's banned from the rings ?

Yep. And weren't needed once nitro-powered 12's could handle
1 1/4's in a lighter/quicker package.

John, does your gun have a round Greener crossbolt, a square bolt, or a doll's head with no cross bolt?

Bill:
It has the doll's head. Now that you ask the question---Did Greener ever use a square crossbolt?
Best,
John

Gee, didn't you read litany of horrors regarding square bolt in The Gun and it's Development?
I think square bolt came from "Society of the Box". Remember pics of "Damascus Bulgy" from Fl shop?
This is as close as one is going to get to "Square Greener"....from "Society of Squares" of course