doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Barrel Sleeving - Case Study

I agree - I have an Atkin made to the same specs as GT's gun. Well worth the asking price and half the cost of a Purdey.

I would argue that, rather then sleeve a gun, some deserve to have a new set of barrels fitted.

I have a Harkom 16 with barrels by Hellis, Beesley and Watson that was well worth the price <$1500!! Wonderful bird gun.

I was just jumping to conclusions Ken, sorry about that. Usually, if something is thin, but okay, it probably wouldn't be mentioned. In this case it says under, what I don't know, but the sale price would make me think all the bidders on that gun knew money would have to be sunk into it.

On a side note, the gun is near seven pounds with cut barrels. I wonder if it's a less common specialty gun, like a pigeon or waterfowl gun, bumping up the value a bit.

Dtm, I've spent a fair amount of time over the past 20+ years developing a set of charts that show Brit and Continental gun values (not to be confused with prices) as functions of Brand Value (BV), Original Quality (OQ), and Current Condition (CC). Several of the guys here have and use said charts with a very good level of expertise. While not "gospel," the charts have over the years shown a good correlation to auction results (a public knowledge of gun prices). The value of the charts is to jump-start learning. They require some expertise to use, but seem to provide a good return in speeding up the learning necessary to evaluate Brit and Continental guns.

Post back if you have further questions.

DDA

Good study so far!!

OK, here is what I saw with the listing.

1. A late 1940's serialed Woodward BLE (W&S Propritary)--- BV1

1 1/2. W&S Proptitary --- OQ6 (mid-grade BLE)

2. Barrels have been cut behind chokes --- ding

3. Broad rib with 2 3/4" chambers and large action --- fowler/pigeon

4. Best engraving --- better than usual but not best --- small kaching

5. Very slight traces of CCH --- CC4 (maybe?)

6. Better than usual stock --- OQ5 1/2-CC3 1/2 --- kaching

BV1-OQ5 1/2-CC3 1/2 = $4,400

BUT what about those cut barrels? Somewhere between BV1-OQ5 1/2-CC7 or 8 = $1,600 or $1,000. Auction estimate lines up pretty well. So, I did my due diligence. Purdey's own the Woodward records and kindly confirmed it was a 30" barreled pigeon gun, bought-in in the white from W&S and sold Oct. of 1946 (that is relatively modern). Holt's confirmed the stock and engraving were better than usual, the action was sound, and the gun didn't appear to have been shot excessively. Previous research on my part showed this was the only boxlock pigeon Woodward ever made.

Intangibles. I have a modest collection of Woodwards and a substantial virtual collection of Woodwards. I suspect a mid-weight "pigeonish" gun would suit me nicely. I'm a collector-shooter and have a modest bias against non-OE guns.

Should I buy it with the understanding I will most likely need to sleeve it?

DDA

DDA,
Is there a separate chart showing a dollar value to assign to the BV,OQ, and CC to come up with the gun's value?
Karl

Karl, there are five charts organized on BV; BV1 - BV5. Each chart has a nine OQ by nine CC pigeon hole matrix (81 holes); 405 total pigeon holes. Each pigeon hole has a dollar value for 12 bore, SXS, USA average retail based on auction results (allowing for premiums and shipping and dealer costs).

If that didn't answer your question, post back.

DDA

Absolutely. First, if it's a one off, there not much point in waiting around for another one to turn up. Second, you already did your homework so there's a fair chance you'll come in under budget, but it doesn't matter if it stays in the ballpark. And, last but not least, let's see the pictures. Has it been about enough time to have it nicely sleeved and the end of that rib carefully recreated?

Don,

Nice to see the rest of the story on this gun. It looks like this gun is a niche for your collecting/shooting habits. You know what it will cost to sleeve it and put it back closer to its original specs. Did you buy it?

Ken

DDA,
I believe that did explain it, how can I access the charts?
Karl

Is the cost of making new top and bottom ribs (especially a nicely matted or checkered top rib) included in a sleeve job that takes the barrel length from, let's say, 28" to 32"? New ribs are required when going to a longer barrel length, are they not? My thought is the making and laying of new ribs is a job requiring a lot of time and skill.
JR