doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What's the deal with drop?

What's the deal with drop? Everyone cautions me away from guns with a lot of drop and I guess I do not understand why? Perhaps I just have a long neck and shoot with a more "heads up" technique, but I feel that most guns do not have enough drop for me. Most of the time I feel like I need to smoosh my cheek down onto the stock to avoid seeing too much of the rib, but perhaps I am just ignorant on proper shotgun fit? I was always told to cut a piece of McDonalds drinking straw and tape it on the rib. Close your eyes, mount the gun, open your eyes and you should be looking perfectly through the straw and only seeing it as an "O" shaped silhouette. Is this incorrect?

Please share any and all opinions...

Modern shooters shoot with a more face down into the stock that shooters from the flintlock and percussion cap era. I think this is natural when you think about things making sparks close to your eyes you might use a more heads up stance to put a few inches extra safety space between the fire and your face. If you like a heads up style of shooting there are plenty of older guns to pick from, not so many new ones.

Most new shotguns are in the 2 inch drop area, in the 50's 2.5 was common. At the turn of the century (19 to 20th) 3 inch drop was common and even more was around.

bill

I believe that there is drop at comb and drop at heal involved and some stocks have a more straight comb line affecting the mount. I've become pretty adaptable with my various shotgun stocks.
Karl

I prefer stocks with what today is considered to be excessive drop. 2 3/4" to 3" with a drop at comb of 1 5/8" is generally about perfect. I don't have a long neck but definitely shoot with my head up and only lightly touching the stock. Not saying this is the way others ought to shoot but it works best for me. I'm hunting live birds and shoot with both eyes wide open and need to see as much as possible.

As with any other sport that uses a tool (golf, tennis, etc) there is no absolute right or wrong way to hold it. Do whatever works best for you and be happy.

If you shoot well with stocks that are today considered to have excessive drop you have an advantage in buying guns so stocked. Most of us current shooters would need a noticeably expensive stock alteration or replacement.

Blessings come in differing shapes and sizes.

DDA

It is pretty easy to accommodate a little too much drop, not so much too little drop. Most Italian O/Us have too little for me. Beretta is the exception. DAC is more important than DAH, but in most cases too little DAH means too little DAC. Too little drop and I have to float the bird, and that is a recipe for poor shooting.
I handled three of CSMC's Revelations yesterday. All had perfect drop for me. I think Lou said they were 2 3/8" at the heel, but the catalog says 2 1/2". Anyway, it was a fit for me.

SRH

For whatever reason, the British don't seem to have produced many sxs with what most shooters today would consider excessive drop--even back when 3" DAH was very common on guns made in the States. Vintage British hammerguns often fit American shooters without much in the way of stock modification. Not sure why the difference between their side of the pond and ours.

I am in the group with Joe Wood. I rough shoot birds.Shots taken at any angle sometimes with only one foot planted on the ground. I shoot best with guns having 2-5/8"- 2-7/8" DAH, 1-3/4" DAC. I can NOT hit a blsted thing with guns of "Modern" dimensions. When S&W first introduced their Elite Gold, 20ga, I handled several. Couldn't get down on that gun. Always looking an inch over the top having a great view of the top of the barrels. More drop makes you pull the butt away from your shoulder on high, overhead shots, but that rarely happens on quail, pheasant, or snipe. Ducks, driven birds, doves...a different matter.

Larry, I think it falls back to the type shooting they did. Driven game and Waterfowl = overhead shots = straighter stock dimensions to maintain sight picture down the tubes.

John

I measured my new Revelation it had 1 1/2" drop at comb and 2 1/2" drop at heel. Perfect for me and with the thin comb, I need no cast.

Those dimentions noted 2 1/2x1 1/2, seem to fit most shooters, and works for me.
Karl

Vintage British driven game style was straight leading arm, back & neck looking above the rib





Pigeon and Inanimate Target (target going away) mount was similar to today - forward lean and crawling the stock

Monte Carlo "Illustrated Sporting And Dramatic News", Feb. 13, 1904 - https://books.google.com/books?id=W-JEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA999&lpg



1908 U.K. Olympic Team Gold



Live action (the first minute) from the 1912 Stockholm Olympics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...t-ts=1422579428

Thanks so much for all the responses. I now feel like maybe I'm not such an odd duck...

Illustrative collection of live action target and live bird shooting from the 30s-60s

http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/vintage-live-action-trap-and-live-bird-shooting.514889/

The problem with still photos is that the shooters are almost always in the 'ready position' with the head off the stock.
Not sure why there are 2 gentlemen, 2 yards apart, as I have not come across any reports of "head-to-head" or 2 man pigeon competitions at Monte Carlo. Note the far shooter is wearing a glove on his forward hand.
Not enough resolution to say, but the near shooting sure looks to be using a Parker Trojan?? I had one 12g once with 2 1/2" chambers and British proofmarks



More images from Monte Carlo here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/24800261

Of my two Parker repros, the 20 was perfect, but the 12 comb seemed at least a quarter inch too high.
I took the 12 to a well known double gun shop where they used heated oil to bend the stock to fit me and it now fits perfectly.

Field shooting for me is a quick, haphazard affair. I cannot recall having ever been mindful of cheek weld, follow-through, or any of the fine points of shooting that I otherwise aspire to. In that mode, when the face may not be firmly on the comb, or even touching, a generous amount of drop may serve the shooter well. Many were the day when I would wrap things up, pleasantly surprised with my performance using a gun with archaic dimensions.

The gun I shoot best with is 2 5/8 x 1 1/2 Made in 1916.
O.M

moses, 2 5/8" to 2 3/4" is about right for me on most guns, too.

Drew, I'll bet that pic from Monte Carlo was posed, and not a pic of actual competition. I've never heard of an event where two guns were shooting pigeons at the same time. Cyril mentions nothing in his great new book about that, either.

Remember that, unless a shotgun has a parallel comb, the drop at face will increase the longer you make the LOP. I have many guns that didn't have quite enough drop for me until I added 1/2" to 3/4" to the pull. That, effectively, moves your cheek farther to the rear which increases the drop. Adding a Kick Killer leather lace-on pad, with 1/2" thickness of pad, has made the difference for me on many guns.

All my best, SRH

Drew, it's amazing how some of these inexpensive guns have traveled. This is one of my 12 ga. Sterlingworth Foxes. It's "been around", too......evidently.



SRH

Years ago a friend turned me on to 3" DAH which meant about 2" DAC. He said " I like a gun with lots of drop. This way I can't lift my head off the stock, it's already up ". That's been a good 15 years ago and my, I hate to think how many times someone has said " damn, I lifted my head ". I tell I can fix that with a little stock bending, but no bodee takes me up on the offer. It just seems so much easier to shoot standing in a natural position with your head up instead of having to scrunch down like a turtle. No offence to all you turtles.

Doug Florent said modern Spanish game guns are higher in comb than old English ones. Second hand AyA No.2 in very good shape costs about �2000. King Bros. (ASI) have been importing them from Spain to England since 1950s. What could go wrong?

What is even more amazing is for how little money nice old English BLE can be had for. Doug Florent said about �1000.

So how many do you have on order? Hmmm?

SRH

Don't need one. I own SLE already.

One thousand bucks can now buy pretty good knockabout gun....
cost about $55 when it was made in Utica NY USA...

Original LOP was 14" with 3" drop at heel. Could not go wrong with that one it even has top quality recoil pad professionally installed. It has one big advantage over English one in that ammo can be had from Walmart 24/7.

Sure you do Fraud-meister. It just kind of slipped your mind until recently when your pal King embarrassed the hell out of you by replying to canvasback about your fantasy gun buying. In fact, here's a picture of it:

And it starts...

Let it go!

Beware of the man with one imaginary gun...

He probably knows how to use it... to shoot himself in the foot after getting caught in a web of lies.

What's the deal on drop? Being able to see what you are shooting at.

Yea, lots of drop and you don't have to drop your head so the gun fits. Just keep it up, slap the gun to your face, and pull the trigger. Couldn't agree more. The KISS principle.

My theory on this is as follows;

British field shooting (hunting) by those who bought quality guns when these guns were built tended to be large days - lots of shots fired in a short time window. In addition, light guns with fast handling were preferred. Recoil can therefore be an issue.
Now guns with little drop and a bit of cast exhibit less perceived recoil (less upward flip) than those with a larger drop. The shooting shoulder is also raised a bit as the gun is mounted and a slightly 'lean forward' stance adopted, which I think reduces perceived recoil.
This set of factors enables a lot of shots from light fast handling guns without excessive punishment from recoil.

LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!

SPACE ALIENS WILL EAT YOU IF YOUR GUN HAS TOO MUCH DROP!!!!

beware of internet trolls who trash threads on this fine doublegun web site..

Hey, Ed! Even tho I have a couple parties' posts blocked I still see the blank spot and the notice. In the interests of fairness and sticking to the subject what I've decided to do is copy and save my above comment and post it every time I see that notice. By fairness I mean that I deserve as much attention for nothing as any other meathead that posts BS on this site even tho I really don't feel the need to engage in some moronic rant with every post.

All y'all have another day