doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Baker 1897

Good afternoon. Would someone who really knows Bakers be kind enough to go over the highlights of a Baker 1897 hammergun? What years were they made, grades, weaknesses, etc.?

Thanks!

Start here
http://www.bakercollectors.com/

Yes Sir, did so, and it offers great images and corporate information. I�m hoping to learn more about them from folks with firsthand experience.

I really like my Bakers, but they are all hammerless.

Is yours a Baker Gun & Forging Co. Batavia, NY 1890-1919


I feel sure Daryl Hallquist will be along soon.

Mike

Thanks Mike. Also giving an A grade hammerless a try, along with the 1897. Daryl confirmed that the A is just that. Did not discuss the 1897 with him.

Great
My EARLY Baker B

I once passed up what was a good deal on most likely a Baker B at a gunshow. I did not know much at all about Baker's at the time. I saw extensive engraving coverage, though that one was all scroll, no game or dog scenes, & the twist barrels. I did not per-se have anything against the twist barrels but thought it was likely a mis-matched gun as I was just not used to seeing this combo of twist barrels except on primarily un-engraved guns. Live & Learn.

Bill, I agree, Daryl is the person you need to get with.

Some of his info is here at DocDrew's site:
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17434920

I have at least one model 1897, and some information saved on my PC. Also 8-10 boxlock and sidelock variants. Anything specific you are wanting to know?

John

Hi John. Thank you.

Are there records to pinpoint year of manufacturing, or what years in general were the 1897's made?

Were they produced in grades, and if so, what would distinguish the grade? This one is a 30" 12ga, full/full, Princes of Wales, damascus. It seems to have rebounding hammers.

The A grade was confirmed as such by Daryl with a picture of the engraving and it's damascus barrels. I think it's a 28". I saw it at the Southern, but did not buy it there. A lot heavier gun than it looked like it would be.

I'll be looking for the DGJ issues with the Baker articles, which I think are 1992 #3 and #4, 1998 #2, and 2003 #4. I don't think I've got those.

Bill,

The first picture on the picturetrail site is a Serial No. Estimate/ yr of mfg chart. This is an old sheet and some things have changed. I will look at my files when I get back to the house and let you know if I have any pertinent info on grades. Baker engraving varies gun to gun so it can be tough to identify using it. Barrel type divides the models. Guns mfg'd 1915-19 can be almost any configuration of parts and mechanisms.

Daryl will still be the "be all end all" contact.

John

W.H. Baker left Ithaca early 1887 and returned to Syracuse to work with his brother Dr. Ellis Baker at the Syracuse Forging Co., which soon became the Syracuse Forging & Gun Co. They manufactured a trigger-plate hammer gun designed by A.C. McFarland, Patent No. 370,966 called the "New Baker Gun". After the factory in Syracuse burned in the summer of 1888, they moved to Batavia and eventually the company became the Baker Gun & Forging Co.

The "New Baker" was offered in (very rare) higher grades



The 1897 is a sidelock hammergun



In the 1900 catalog the Model 1897 hammer gun with twist barrels $25 net; with Damascus barrels $27.80 net. I do not believe higher grades were offered, but Daryl might correct me



I also do not know when fluid steel barrels were offered on the 1897; possibly with the Batavia line in 1902

The last 1897 was made in 1915 or 1916, but may have still been in dealer's stock thereafter

"The Evolution of Baker Hammer Guns" by William M. Furnish and Daryl D. Hallquist is in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Nine, Issue 2, pages 63 to 77, 1998.

Thanks Drew. This one has damascus, and I'm looking forward to taking a look at the locks.

Bill,

Following are a few pictures I have of model 1897's that were taken from internet searches:

The engraving varies. Both are twist barrels. Both have fishtail top levers





A couple pages from the Baker Gunner. I don't have the dates.








John

Thanks John. Looks like what I�ve got except for I have damascus. Not particularly confident in the trigger springs or sear springs. They�re just wire, but since they�ve held up this long I guess they�re ok.

I've never seen a "higher grade" Baker Model 1897. One of the guns I kick myself for not buying was a screaming Baker Model 1897 16-gauge that Ivory Beads had at a long ago Vintage Cup at Sandanona.

The Model 1897 was brought out in that year and the Company claimed it was made to use smokeless powders. I have never seen the Model 1897 , either in person or in ads, offered in other than the standard Damascus or Twist grades. Likewise , I know of no Model 1897s with fluid steel barrels. No factory records are known to exist, so dates of manufacture are speculative. Off the top of my head , I think the Model 1897 was serial numbered from 27,000-37,000. It is hard to pinpoint, but I think the Model 1897 went out of production between 1912-1914. One must remember that Baker Gun and Forging Co. often had nearly a year's supply of finished, non custom, guns on hand , before distributing same to Jobbers and Retailers, meanwhile making more. Thus, the guns could be sold a year or more after manufacturing.

Thanks Daryl. Mine is 34235, 30� f/f damascus, 2 3/4�, well figured wood.