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Forums10
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,561 Likes: 249
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,561 Likes: 249 |
....Game biologists will tell you that turkeys don't have a negative impact on grouse. And, in general, DNR's like to point to the reintroduction of wild turkeys as a modern day success story in wildlife management. (Turkey hunting is also in the best interest of state wildlife agencies, because there are special licenses involved, which = additional revenue.) But those same biologists didn't expect turkey numbers to explode the way they have . . . nor, for example, that turkeys would inhabit parts of the country (like northern WI/MN and the UP) where they either were not found historically or else were only present in very limited numbers. So it's gone beyond what they expected to see from the reintroduction.... To me that says a lot Larry. Maybe, only so many critters can fit into a patch of woods, and the ones that show increases are probably doing so at the expense of others, regardless of complexity. The part I couldn't help but ask about, are these the same authorities doing the research and writing the expert reference publications? How could they have possibly been motivated by money and blind sided by unintended consequences? And yet, they hold the same conclusions, or at least will tell the same stories? Oh well, I'm sure there's some way to tell that this is an isolated example, and they are ready to tackle more complex issues.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 274 Likes: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 274 Likes: 75 |
I know very little about grouse, but it's hard for me to believe that turkeys could be a significant nest predator. Turkey poults primarily eat insects, but after that their diet becomes mostly plant materials. I don't think they are ever gonna go out hunting for grouse nests.
However, they may very well compete with the grouse for some of the same foods, and could have a negative effect on them in that manner.
I've seen turkeys and quail thrive on the same land for many years, but the quail are now gone from the land that I can hunt. As much as I enjoy turkey hunting, I would rather have quail. I don't believe our quail decline is related to turkeys.
I don't know how it is in Canada, but where I live it doesn't matter what we think anyway. The state dcnr is gonna do whatever they wanna do, and what people think about it doesn't matter to them.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 389 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 389 Likes: 4 |
Turkeys are voracious omnivorous. They roam the forest floor in flocks digging up and overturning vegetation as they go. They will eat anything that they can fit in their mouths.
I highly doubt they are specifically looking for grouse eggs or young, but if they come across them they undoubtedly will be eaten. Just like any other organism they happen across.
To introduce turkey where they were not historically found, is to simply introduce yet another predator into the live cycles of the animals already inhabiting that environment.
It will be left to regional communities to determine if that is a good idea.
“I left long before daylight, alone but not lonely.”~Gordon Macquarrie
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 484 Likes: 69
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 484 Likes: 69 |
Flintfan, I think this to be the case too. Adaptable and opportunistic creatures out competing the less so.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325 |
We have both in the SW Va Mtns. When Turkey populations are up, the Grouse are not to be seen. Turkeys have been down the last two years and yep, seeing more grouse than ever.
Charlie
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114 |
We have both in the SW Va Mtns. When Turkey populations are up, the Grouse are not to be seen. Turkeys have been down the last two years and yep, seeing more grouse than ever.
Charlie That's the way it is supposed to work. Bobwhite quail are the ultimate prey species. Should we kill'em all with poison, weather or predators and then give them two years of good weather and a relief from whatever's been killing them and they should be up to your ears. It hasn't been working that way the last 30 years around here...Geo
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
We have both in the SW Va Mtns. When Turkey populations are up, the Grouse are not to be seen. Turkeys have been down the last two years and yep, seeing more grouse than ever.
Charlie That's the way it is supposed to work. Bobwhite quail are the ultimate prey species. Should we kill'em all with poison, weather or predators and then give them two years of good weather and a relief from whatever's been killing them and they should be up to your ears. It hasn't been working that way the last 30 years around here...Geo I am not following your post at all Geo. What species are you referring to with the "kill'em all with poison" statement? The OP just stated an observation. He didn't advocate for taking any measures. Being an actual land owner in SW VA I would agree with his statement about when Turkey numbers are up the grouse numbers are down.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114 |
1cdog, my point was simply that whatever is happening to the quail population, no matter what it is, they should be able to bounce back when the cause is reversed, be it predators, pesticides or bad weather...Geo
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
For the most part, turkeys weren't introduced where they'd never been historically. They were reintroduced where they had been historically, but in some cases have spread out into areas where they hadn't been before.
Biologists made some bad assumptions about turkeys. When they were reintroduced in Iowa and had become numerous enough to support a hunting season, the DNR biologist told me we'd probably never kill more than 1,000 of them in a season. That was based on the fact that Iowa doesn't have a whole lot of forest, and on how much mast turkeys need to eat in order to survive. While those assumptions likely worked historically, they fell apart when the birds were brought into a very agricultural state where they had no shortage of high quality food other than the nuts, berries etc they could eat in the woods: CORN. It wasn't long at all before Iowa turkey hunters left the 1,000 bird harvest in the rear view mirror. What Iowa has is unusually high densities of turkeys where there are woodlands, because of all the food provided to them by the farmers.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,996 Likes: 493
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,996 Likes: 493 |
What the Iowa game biologist failed to do was to read the notes of the Buffalo hunters in the Western plains. They told of herds of turkeys that were nearly as numerous as herds of bison. The most they had for trees out there was something called the chinaberry tree.
I sure wish everyone here would become a game biologist. Obviously all the expertise lies behind the keyboards on this forum.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan) =>/
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