doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A Theophilus Murcott pinfire

Mr. Helsley, I've sent you a PM.

As to the gun, there is no patent number on the action flat. As the dual-fire conversion appears to have been done after delivery (the hammers have extra metal brazed on them to hit the strikers - I presume if it was purpose-built as a dual-fire the hammers would have been made one-piece), and notches in the action face have been cut parallel to the slot to make room for the extractor, perhaps the patent number was lost in the process? I will send photos, and find a way to post photos on the DoubleGun BBS.

While I was given the information that appeared in the Powell ledger, the gun itself displays only one serial number, 3790. There are no obliterated numbers on the gun.

It seems that no matter how much information comes to light, there is always another mystery.

Steve

Mr. Nash, ok. I have seen a few dual fire guns in various states of refinement. I always wondered if the "old" rim cut of the pinfire gave way to the new sized rim of the centerfire. Hard to have it perfect in both instances.

I hope no one minds me resurrecting this thread and perhaps taking it off on a slight tangent.

Geo, I have a 12g pinfire gun that very closely resembles the Boss in your picture, except that mine is signed George Fuller of 280 Strand. The barrels are marked "JP" (John Portluck) and the locks are initialled internally "JS" (John Stanton). The gun also has a stamp on the knuckle of the forend steel "65 2", which a friend has suggested may be a date, i.e. February 1865, although serial number progression, i.e. known numbers/dates > est. guns/year (30) would put it 3 years earlier. Donald Dallas remarked when I showed the Fuller to him earlier this year that it resembled a Boss he owned, and suggested that Boss and Fuller probably shared many of the same craftsmen.

George don't mind if we pick on old scab....do you George.



Yonder tOe'mato stake....

Brings back such fond memories of working in my gran pappies garden.

I guess a claim of profit makes one feel better eh geOrge.

Alas, it was but a very small profit jOe...Geo

Jules, I have a Fuller gun which is a centrefire 12 bore hammer gun. He made top notch stuff. I know someone over here who has put a lot of research into George Fuller and may be able to put you in touch as I am sure he would be interested in details. Fuller died in 1880 with no one to carry on the business. He was a contemporary and rival of the likes of Boss and Purdey and put out work equally as fine but is much lesser known as a result of his business failing to be carried on. Fuller was well known for making live pigeon trap guns in the muzzle loading era. Couple of questions regarding your Fuller. Does it carry the engraving of a rather odd looking tree stump on the top rib at the breech end? Does it mention Maker to His Royal Highness the Late Prince Consort? Thanks. Lagopus�..

I'm glad to see this thread revived! Still hoping for Murcott information...

I have a George Fuller pinfire. On the face of it it is a standard double-bite rotary underlever 12-bore, but upon closer examination, it has some peculiarities.

The serial number is 245, marked on the trigger guard tang only. The twist (not damascus) barrels are 26 1/2 inch, with London proofs. The barrels have a wide top rib, signed �Geo. Fuller. 10. Wardour St. Soho. London.� The stepped back-action locks are signed �Geo.E Fuller�. The trigger guard bow has game scene engraving (obscured by the lever when closed), and together with a slight mismatch in border engraving where the lock meets the breech, suggesting slightly cut lock plates, I'm presuming this is a very well-accomplished conversion from percussion.

George Fuller is listed as a gunmaker at 104 Wardour St. in 1845, and at 280 Strand for the period 1856-1871. There is no explanation for the �10 Wardour St.� address on the rib (it is definitely a 10, and not a worn 104). The serial number might place it in the 1850 range for a Fuller gun (according to data published in Nigel Brown's books), though not all makers followed perfectly sequential numbers, and dating just with serial numbers is a risk. The conversion would have to have been post-1862, with the unmarked double screw-grip.

John Portlock was definitely a sought-after barrel man. The Fuller barrels described above do not have the JP mark, but two Boss pinfires that I have do (numbers 2024 and 2068). Together with E.C. Hodges doing the actioning for top makers at the time, and top-grade lock makers and engravers, it is not surprising there is a similarity amongst the top quality guns of the day.

Just for information, the 1860 Boss gun I once owned and which is pictured above had the rotary underlever, but with only one bite rather than two. That was part of my rationale for discontinuing the restoration I'd hoped for. Well, that and the rather airish barrels...Geo