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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,202 Likes: 1176 |
According to the writings I have of V M Starr, the grand old man of m/l shotgunning, he choked his old original English m/l shotguns, though I cannot find where he actually said he jug choked them. I always assumed that's what he did, because I cannot think of another way he would have choked them himself. He commented that he had an 11 bore Moore that would shoot 80% patterns with duck loads. I have always had a question about how he overcame the problem of swaging the wads as they passed through the choke, then having loose wads in the load.
Does anyone have any other writings of Starr's that would address the actual jug choking, and the wads he used and how he overcame the aforementioned problem?
Thanks much, SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
Stan, my 60 year ago memory is that he said he jug choked them. I had his little booklet back then but long gone. Gee, where have the years gone! Go over to American Longrifles and post the question. Surely one of those old toots will have a frayed copy of Starr's. http://www.americanlongrifles.com/
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,202 Likes: 1176 |
Thank you, Joe. I just went there and registered, and will post the query when I am allowed to do so.
Good idea. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
Stan, there are a lot of very fine and knowledgable folks over there. And some of the best gunmakers in the country. You might also check out the Contemporary Longrifle Association, https://www.longrifle.com
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
You can read V M Starr's book on line here; http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/starr.html
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,202 Likes: 1176 |
As I recall, Mr. Wm Brockway used to post on here occasionally, years ago. Sure wish he was still around to ask.
Maybe someone here or there will know.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,202 Likes: 1176
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,202 Likes: 1176 |
Thanks, Miller. I have that already, but was hoping for some further things he may have written on jug choking and loads.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Posts: 111
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 111 |
I had the honor of talking with Mr. Starr over the phone many years ago, most of what I remember about the conversation was about hunting and the then new steel shot, I did call to ask about jug choking because he was the master, however that part of the conversation is rather misty. He was very generous with his time, such a nice guy!
TM
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12 |
He jug choked them. As I remember he went back 8" to start the choke and continued forward 6". The last 2" in front of the muzzle were left alone. I read his book explaining it and it's what I've always done when jug choking a gun. First it was muzzle loaders in the 70's and now SxS's that use shells. It was a book I got years ago from a county library.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,744 Likes: 496 |
Jug choking works well if you do it 5-6” long instead of the 2” I’ve seen tried which does very little to tighten a choke. Not enough bore for the shot to open up so you can squeeze it tight again.
I have had one gun jug choked and had several we could not do it because the barrel walls were too thin. If you have a set of barrels, which are .020’s 4-6” from the muzzle, you don’t have enough metal to work with. One set of barrels looked great from the muzzle end with .030-.035 metal to work with but six inches back they were .022-.026. The bores were straight but the exterior was struck thinner away from the muzzle. I wanted .020 choke added but taking .010 per side away would have left them .012 and .016. Time to measure wall thickness and let that be your guide.
I guess a card or wad will pass through the choke area, jump across the back bored area and fit snuggly down the rest of the bore. On the way out you might get a trivial amount of blow by in the back bored area but it should have little effect on the pattern. Those guns with termite holes along their muzzle, proported to clay target hunters, seem to suffer no ill effects with that gas loss. The Russians bored a lot of their Olympic Skeet guns that way but the fad never caught on here in the US. Tulia chokes was the name as I recall. Two versions, one with a Olympic-wide muzzle type and straight choke type with the intent to keep chokes tight and eliminate all fliers
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