doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Not good-potential early closure of WI bird season

Returning to game birds (after giving the Homeless One the bird he deserves) . . .

Back when WNV first showed up in the Midwest, the Iowa DNR tested something like 80 pheasants that had been shot by hunters. All were healthy, but those tests revealed that about 20% of the birds tested showed WNV antibodies. Which means they'd been exposed, but obviously not infected. And at the same time, South Dakota was experiencing pheasant harvests in the 2 million range, which was the best they'd had since the early 1960's. So it appears unlikely that WNV has any significant impact on pheasants.

Purely anecdotal, but for what it's worth:

I hunt deer and grouse in upstate Pennsylvania, primarily in the state forest lands where Potter, Lycoming and Clinton Counties meet. My brother and I have observed that the number of ravens we see while deer hunting has dropped off markedly. Where we used to see (or hear the wingbeats or calls of - the woods are stunningly quiet if the wind is still and the sound of a raven's wings carries a long way) a dozen or more a day, it's a good day if we see (or hear) two or three. The situation with grouse is similar. Hiking in the woods used to routinely flush grouse - not shootable flushes, mind you, but flushes nonetheless. Driving down the forest service roads resulted in regular sightings, usually of birds gathering gravel for their crops. It's a rare thing to see one today - rare enough that we've all but given up hunting them.

I have no idea what the cause of either bird's population drop might be, but it's clear that the drop has occurred. Nor, I suspect, does the PA Game Commission know.

As a side note, the hunter population during the traditional rifle deer season has also plummeted and aged as well. Seeing someone younger than in his 50s is quite unusual. Where there used to be 10-15 people seen walking through the woods in the average day, I now see none other than my brother, with whom I hunt. As a result, the deer move less. The Game Commission did institute more stringent rules about legal bucks (minimum of 3 points on one antler; 4 points in a couple of areas) so the trophies are more impressive. But the limitations have also discouraged the young and those with shorter attention spans from deer hunting. License sales have dropped precipitously. Gun sales seem to focus on semi-automatic rifles, which are not legal for deer hunting in PA.

Some combination of the protection of raptors, the decline of trapping, and the removal of nesting cover and shelter, particularly with farmers planting boundary line to boundary line, has resulted in the total elimination of the wild pheasant population. The only pheasant hunting remaining in the state is put and take.

All things considered, what was once the No. 1 or No. 2 state in number of hunters seems to be in an accelerating downhill trajectory.

Rem40X,

I have to admit the lower part of Potter County is almost like a different county these days. However the northern part of Potter and Tioga is a completely different matter. During Turkey, Grouse/ Woodcock and Pheasant season, we have lots of bird hunters with their dogs up here, with the average amount of young hunters mixed in with their fathers and uncles.

We also get a big number of out of state hunters here, some own their own camps here in northern Potter and come from many different states to hunt in the Rt6 area, during Grouse, Pheasant and Turkey seasons. Even our released Pheasant have not been effected by WNV as far as anyone can really tell, and in some areas we do have nice hold over Pheasants. Predators however take a big percentage of the released Pheasants here in our mountains, not WNV. Putting bounties back on predators of all different kinds, would increase all the different small game numbers drastically, especially the Grouse population.

Our Grouse and Woodcock numbers are still pretty darn good, Turkey & Pheasants have not been effected what so ever, however our Crows and Ravens and some other small birds have definitely diminished in number. Eliminating late season Grouse hunting is going to effect the economy of all the little towns here in northern Potter, Warren and Tioga counties adversely for sure. The little towns here still depend on the hunters and Fisherman for a lot of their seasonal business, limiting the seasons in any way, always effects their businesses.

You made a good point when you said the PGC did not really know what is effecting the over all Grouse population here in PA, however shortening Grouse season will probably not help the Grouse population, however it will negatively effect the little towns monetary situations for sure. It's to bad proper testing like the RGS & WI DNR instituted for the effects of WNV, was not done prior to altering the Pa Grouse hunting season. No PA hunting season should ever be shortened on an unproven theory. Out west they have already proven WNV had little to no effect on the Pheasant population, it will be interesting to see if the PGC shortens Pheasant season here in Pa, similar to what they have done with Grouse season.

RGD/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

I can see you never met jAck Chit....because you don't know Chit about anything.

Did the Muzlims brain wash yOu Larry while they were raising your daughter ?

I'm sure Joe said something either useless or offensive or both . . . but I'm now spared the trouble of looking.

Larry Clown, you're not supposed to respond to those you are IGNORING. It shows us that you have severely elevated estrogen levels like Dr. Wanker, and that you still haven't grasped the concept behind the IGNORE function. And if you pretend to IGNORE everyone who thinks you're a dick, you'll only be left with Gladys, Gregory, and maybe your older brother King and your fellow anti-lead ammunition advocate BrentD.

If Larry the Clown could learn to ignore his thoughts the world would be a much better place.

[/quote]

Back when WNV first showed up in the Midwest, the Iowa DNR tested something like 80 pheasants that had been shot by hunters. All were healthy, but those tests revealed that about 20% of the birds tested showed WNV antibodies. Which means they'd been exposed, but obviously not infected. And at the same time, South Dakota was experiencing pheasant harvests in the 2 million range, which was the best they'd had since the early 1960's. So it appears unlikely that WNV has any significant impact on pheasants. [/quote]


A week or so ago was able to spend a little time with Al Stewart, Michigan's Upland Bird Specialists at a seminar put on by RGS.

Sounds like the concern is that WNV may be more lethal for grouse than for pheasants or turkey. Michigan hopes to test several hundred grouse this fall (thru cooperative hunters) to try and get a better handle on this.

12 Michigan grouse were found to have died or serious ill from WNV last fall. And these were birds that were just turned in by concerned citizens.

Until the results are in, Michigan hopes that good habitat will make for healthy grouse which can better with stand the disease. So their hope is by improving habitat the birds can get past this. But a few years of sampling will be needed.

Tim Wolf,

12 Grouse being found dead from the effects of WNV, is a very small number when talking about all the Grouse in Michigan. However it is definitely something for both the RGS & Michigan Upland Bird Specialist to test and analyze in a scientific manner.

Michigan and WI are doing the right testing and not jumping the gun, however Pa due to their politics, has shortened their Grouse season, on the unproven theory that WNV is a causing a major problem. If it turns out to really be the case they made a good move, however if its no the case, they just detrimentally effected the income of thousands of Pa small businesses who depend on the hunters each season to keep their family businesses solvent. Very glad WI and Michigan are handling the situation in the correct scientific manner.

Ryman Gun Dog/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

If I understood correctly the 12 grouse are of concern in that over the past 16 years they have only had one other dead grouse brought in that tested positive for WNV. Thus the reason to take a more scientific look.