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Great post from Stephen Nash.

I think his estimate on total production of British pinfires is too low. William Powell
& Son alone made approximately 650.

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Steve

Thanks for your post. It was very informative and encouraging.

As I said in an earlier post I am a gun nut/hunter and only in the last couple of years have come to begin appreciating all things sxs.

I hunt with a Browning BBS 20ga and Citori O/U but man I have been bit with the art of these earlier guns. I would love to shoot this gun but will resist the urge to do so until I am firmly convinced it is appropriate to do so.

Again thanks for the insight.

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This Boss gun (per the build sheet I got from Boss) was manufactured in 1860 as a pinfire. It was converted to centerfire. It had both the 90 degree corner and the very thin detonators. The underlever only had one lug. I seriously considered having it restored, but passed it along to someone more interested than I was...Geo






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My W&C Scott & Son pinfire has fences which measure about 3/8" thick & it has a radius between the standing breech & action flats of about 1/8". The radius is best guess but with 35+ years in machine shops I have looked a lot of radii so that's close.

This gun was not Serial numbered, probably because it had the original purchaser's name engraved into the top rib. Mr Crawford estimated it to be from 1863-1865 based on the action design. It was he said built on a Matthews Patent which was issued in 1863 I believe he said, still have his letter.

Bolting is by a top lever with single underlug. There is no wear compensation in the bolt. It does however still bolt up snug, though it had some wear in the hinge joint. Even though I am not shooting it I placed a thin shim in the hinge just to make it snug & not "Rattle".

Barrels measure 29 3/4" with no appearance of having been cut. Bores are good with only very minor pitting. Locks are very smooth, I believe the best I have ever felt though will have to admit I have not felt the locks on many truly high grade hammer doubles. There are likely some better feeling ones out there but they can't be my much. It is Birmingham proofed but carries a London address of 7 Dorsett Place Pall Mall East, London.

A Benj D Kennedy of Louisville KY was the original purchaser.
I acquired it from a collector from Louisville. He had tried to find info on Mr Kennedy but found neither a birth nor death certificate for him in the area. He only found where he had a business license for a Jewelry Store in Louisville which included the time frame in which this gun was built.


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Originally Posted By: Steve Helsley
Great post from Stephen Nash.

I think his estimate on total production of British pinfires is too low. William Powell
& Son alone made approximately 650.


Ah, numbers, a good subject for discussion! And you're right, my number is too low.

But just how many pinfires were built in Britain is a bit of a head-scratcher, no error. I wonder if there were more than a few hundred built before 1860, when they were still a new-fangled oddity, and sportsmen wishing to try one could easily buy a Continental gun. The contemporary sporting literature makes very little mention of pinfires (or any reason to buy one) before 1860, even though they were available. Boss & Co. built their first pinfire in 1858, and went on to build 766 pinfires in total between 1858 and 1871 (of which 735 were shotguns). As the pinfire became popular in 1860-1868, just about all the makers built them or sold trade-made guns. Even if one estimated, say, 500 makers, local gunsmiths and retailers in operation during this time, the question would be how many game guns would they sell in a year? For the big London makers, records suggest 70-90 in a year. For a provincial maker, it could be that or half that or less, depending on demand and reputation. By sheer numbers of smiths and retailers, the total number of pinfire game guns made should be in the tens of thousands, if not much more.

This is where I start wondering, who are buying these guns? Sportsmen buying new breech-loaders would likely be landowners, or be of a social class that would be invited to shoot by landowners. Even a top-end provincial or Birmingham gun, like a Powell, would still represent a high purchase cost, not affordable by your 'everyman'. These were not 'meat' guns, or game-keepers's guns, for which any muzzle-loader would do. The market would therefore be relatively small, and within that market there would be those who would be quite content to keep shooting their fine muzzle-loaders. Of those willing to shell out the money for a new gun, there was choice. Pinfires proved the most popular for a time, but at the same time there were other breech-loading systems, which would have enticed at least some of the market.

Proof house records give data on the number of barrels, but without much information on the types of guns or their destination. To further confuse things, surviving makers' records are very confusing. All too often the ledger might mention 'breech-loader', without specifying whether it was a pinfire or centre-fire. And sequential numbers were given to game guns, rifles, pistols etc., so within a given year it might not be possible to know just how many pinfire game guns were made. For makers also building military arms as well, the serial numbers can get high very quickly!

So it is a conundrum. All those gunmakers building pinfires, the numbers of guns should be considerable. But the buying market was probably quite small. And it wasn't much of an export market, either. Few sporting pinfires made it across the Atlantic to North America, and in any case finding shells would have been a problem. Access to pinfire shells would have been equally difficult in Africa and India, though a travelling sportsman could have brought their own supply. However, after paper cases swelling in the humid tropics, a hunter might well prefer reaching for their trusty muzzle-loader instead. And by the time all the kinks of breech-loading design and cartridge supply have been worked out, the centre-fire reigned supreme.

Obviously not all pinfires were converted, as quite a few have survived intact. I've seen and examined about 300 British pinfires, and have probably seen a few hundred more in museums, auction catalogues, book illustrations, Internet postings etc. Despite focusing on pinfires for the past two decades, there is always something new around the corner (such as the lovely J. Neale that started this post). Knowing that I've only seen a tiny proportion of the guns that were made and retained as pinfires, there should be thousands still out there. But I just can't wrap my head around the fact the market could not have been that great.

If anyone has any ideas about how large the sporting-gun market would have been in Britain in the 1860s, please chime in!

Thanks to all for the postings of pinfire pictures and information. This is a much overlooked subject of study.

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