doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 28 gauge magnum??

Stan;
I'll give you my thoughts on this, but keep in mind these are Only my thoughts.
In the US 10 ga is the largest size legal for waterfowl. Many who do not extensively hunt waterfowl, but may want to do so on occasion would prefer not to invest in a 10, so are more prone to use a 12.

With this in mind, in my opinion, it makes more sense to stretch these sizes to their limit more so than stretching a smaller gauge. Shot column length in an unprotected bore would be almost identical for a 2 oz 10 gauge, 1 3/4 oz 12 gauge, 1� oz 20 gauge & a 1 oz 28 gauge. A � oz .410 load would be just a tad longer. Also, keep in mind that for the same column length the smaller bore will have a higher % of its shot in bore contact. I do realize that plastic shot cups has eliminated a lot of the "Bore Scrubbing" of unprotected shot in the bore.

The smaller bore will have more of its shot in direct control of the choke, which I firmly believe results in the smaller gauges having a higher central core density. This can be considered as a plus or minus, depending upon one's outlook. I personally consider it a minus as I desire the most uniform spread possible.

This is why in my opinion the "Long" shells truly make sense only at the top end when one desires to fire the heaviest load possible. I was not a dedicated waterfowler but did do some. On the ducks which I killed, I used a 2 3/4" 12 with for the most part 1� oz of #6 or #5. To use 1� oz of shot I prefer the gun to weigh in around 7 lbs, this makes more sense to me in a standard 12 than a long 20. I love a 20 @ around 6 lbs with an oz of shot or a 28 with 3/4 oz but have absolutely no desire to Magnamize them.

I believe the 3�" 12 came into use purely as the result of steel shot due to its lower density taking up more space. For those who are required by law to shoot non-tox, I personally feel they will be well advised to forgo longer shells in the smaller gauges & go to a standard length in a larger size.

From its introduction here in North America in the late 1890s, the "standard" 28-gauge load was 1 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 14 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing 5/8 ounce of shot out of a 2 1/2 inch case.



A slightly hotter load of 2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 16 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing that same 5/8 ounce of shot out of a 2 7/8 inch case was also offered.







In 1931, progressive burning smokeless powder caught up with the 28-gauge, and the 3/4 ounce high velocity load was introduced --





Shortly before WW-II our North American ammunition companies began offering their 28-gauge skeet loads in a 2 3/4 inch case. Very soon after WW-II the 2 1/2 and 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge shells were gone and all loads were put up in a 2 3/4 inch case.

All very good points, Miller. But, the one point i wonder about is what you said about waterfowlers not wanting to invest in a 10. I'm not so sure that argument will hold water. Most duck hunters that I have run into spend a good deal of money on the sport. They have bought a 3 1/2" Super Black Eagle Benelli, or the equivalent, for ducks only. I can't see them being hesitant to buy a Remington SP10, or an older Ithaca 10, if they believed it would kill more ducks. Just my observations.

As an aside, I shoot a lot of 3" loads at ducks, but have never shot a 3 1/2" at a duck or goose, and prolly never will. I also shoot a good many 2 3/4"loads at ducks, and will continue to. I could kill woodies in a small beaver pond with a .410, but over big water I want a good load of steel at 1 3/8 oz., and a minimum of 1350 fps.

I dunno. It's still a quandary for me why the 3" and 3 1/2' 12 was so readily accepted, and the small gauges were/are not.

SRH

3 inch 12 gauge only became necessary with the advent of steel shot.
I see no use for 3 inch 28 gauge or 3 inch 20 gauge. Go up a gauge if you need a heavier payload.
Your choice, of course.
I am perverse enough to still like 16 gauge too.

i'm not so sure that steel shot is what made the 3" 12 ga. "necessary". You can easily buy 1 1/4 oz. steel loads in 2 3/4", or 3". It's an overlap. Anything heavier than 1 1/4 oz. steel usually goes to 3", but I would hazard to say that 85% of the ducks killed each season could be killed with 1 1/4 oz. of steel, which, again, is available in a 2 3/4 oz. loading from more than one company.

Though it's an interesting consideration, Sasbooknut, I'm doubtful it's the answer to the question I'm asking. JMO, only.

SRH

Just my opinion, but I like the 3� 20 gauge shell and I�ve got a Red Label that patterns them really well. I�ve killed a pile of birds with that combo. I�m not a fan of the 3.5� 12 gauge. I shoot a fair number of big geese every year and do not feel undergunned with a quality 3� shell. Plus the recoil of the 3.5� shells is more than I like. I�ve tried them but don�t shoot them anymore.

The 3" 12 gauge was well established prior to steel even being thought of as a material for shot. The 3� 10 gauge also well-preceeded steel shot. The 3�" 12 gauge was brought out to accommodate steel.

Stan, many waterfowl hunters did indeed go with the 10 gauge. Others preferred to stay with the 12 & for them there was the 3" offering. Also, keep in mind that 3" shells had been in existence long before the "Magnum" came into use in the 1920's. I recall Nash Buckingham speaking of his Father using a W W Greener hammer gun in the 1880's which was chambered for a 12 gauge 3
�" shell. From this gun, he fired the "Massive" load of an ounce of shot.

All true, and duly noted, but none of these things IMO explains the phenomenon of why the 12 ga. 3" Magnum was so widely and quickly accepted when the smaller gauges were not. I may not have made myself clear. I'm not looking for why the 12 was accepted in a simple 3", but why it was so widely accepted in a 3" magnum. Obviously, all the 3" introductions of later times are, and have been, magnums. Or, put another way, heavier than normal shot loads.

Thanks for all the replies, but still looking for an answer.

SRH

I shot a Winchester Model 12 in 28 ga. a ton as a youth, using those full one ounce loads in paper hulls. Recoil never bothered me. Not having enough shells might. I wish I could do it all over again, I'd
shoot more of them if I could. Lead shot, for ducks, in narrow creeks with a bull headed Chessy by my side. It does not get better than that, I assure you. Who could do better than a dog named Sir who hated misses and would bite your boots if you missed too much in his opinion. How I miss that dog. It would be so much fun to bring him today and have him growl that guttural growl when friends missed birds.

I hunted most of last season with a 28ga SXS. I shot about 125 pheasants with it using 3/4 oz and 1 oz of No 5s. I really couldn't tell the difference in the killing power in the two weights. But then I use one ounce of 5s in my 20 and 12GA guns as well. The smaller gauges just weigh less. I bought a Benelli Ethos 28ga with 3" chamber this summer. I'll use that gun this year too, but probably won't buy any 3" shells unless they are cheaper than RSTs with 1 ounce of 5s.