doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Blackened Damascus

Here is the link to the specific rifle in question. Not sure if your method holds with rifles, but I think the rifle a good example of my question and appreciate any input.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=3237

Jim

Vern, my method does apply to rifles but the population is small and so it is less specific. The "market" values the Lang name at BV2 which is 3/4 of the value of a BV1 (Boss, H&H, Purdey, and Woodward). The photos would appear to me to show a best work hammergun - OQ5 (hammerguns value about the same as boxlock ejectors). The Current Condition appears to be CC3 (significant use). Putting these three factors together in a 3D pigeon hole table shows BV2-OQ5-CC3 = $4,722 for a SXS shotgun. Now the catch 22! SXS rifles value higher than SXS shotguns. How much? Mmmm, depends. High grade hammerless rifles may go 4X similar shotguns while lower grade hammer rifles may go only 2X; BV2-OQ5-CC3 X 2 = $9,444 And there are those blacked damascus barrels (improper restoration). It would be reasonsble to "ding" the CC level by one point (CC3 down to CC4). That would make the value for a shotgun at BV2-OQ5-CC4 = $3,594 and a 2X rifle at $7,188.

IMO, this rifle deserves a bit more than 2X and doesn't deserve a full level reduction for the blacked barrels. The asking price seems reasonable for a highly reputable dealer.

Note that value is theoretical. Price is the amount agreed to by a willing seller and a willing and able buyer. You could, IMO, have the barrels restored without any further drop in value. However, you might not recoup your cost of restoration at time of sale.

Hope that helps you. Feel free to ask any additional questions.

DDA

Thank you very much. It does indeed help. Below is one more from the same dealer as a point of reference. I believe Henry would have a higher BV, but the OQ is not as high? Would you mind running the numbers on this one? Thanks.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=3265

Jim

Interesting gun. Actually, Henry has the same BV as Lang, BV2. OQ? Well, if we had, say, 75% coverage of good engraving we could call this a best work gun at OQ5 without batting an eye (remember that OQ5 is a best work hammer gun and a best work BLE whereas OQ1 is a best SLE and OQ2 is a best SLNE). It has, maybe 5%. I'm going to say OQ5.5 and a pox on the tight fisted Scot who forewent the engraving to save a buck. CC? CC2 equals slight use whereas CC3 equals significant use. How about CC2.5? BV2-OQ1.5-CC2.5 X2 = $9,792. As you can see, the slight decrease in OQ is more than offset by the slight increase in CC.

Is this making sense? Questions welcome.

DDA

Listed as a Third quality gun in the Dallas book. All Henry rifles are superb no matter the level of embellishment.

I personally feel that with English rifles caliber is a huge factor. Smaller caliber guns and BP guns generally bring less on the market. Exceptions exist certainly.

RM...Do you feel James Lang values the same as his Father Joseph?

It makes sense and answers my question precicely. Thank you very much.

Jim

Yes, I think most buyers really don't differentiate the Lang names. Therefore I just carry "Lang" as BV2. "Lang" is a relatively small population.

Do you think the "third grade" had any important mechanical connotations? Or, was it basically embellishment? Thanks for the input - fooled me on the grade.

Just embellishment, the fit, finish and mechanical properties will be all be Best grade.

Thanks. So, Henry graded his guns much like Woodward - just embellishment reduction. I was having a real struggle with the wood on the rifle in question. Nobody, but nobody, put that kind of wood on a real down-grade gun. I was chewing on the idea of an old replacement stock but that didn't seem likely. When you find high grade wood on a Brit gun you can be pretty sure it is a high grade gun.

DDA

Henry wasn't and isn't really known for shotguns; but in rifles I (and others) would contend the name is up there with the Woodwards, Purdeys etc.