doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A test of your English gun knowledge

Just a cursory inspection, but H&H sources their cases from Huey in Kansas City, Missouri? So a cobbled together case & case label printed from the internet. From the images I don't see evidence the tubeset(s) are chopperlump.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I forgot to note that there's one phrase I really fancy:

"Now in a nearly-new state of preservation"

So currently it is in a steady state & as new? Might need to tidy up those screw-heads before even considering to making that statement?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

It�s an old gun that�s been redone. Probably made in Birmingham anyway

That gun is shiny. Too bad it shines in all the wrong places. Clearly restored by a non British trained person. Checkering should be flat top. Case colors just wrong. Proof marks don�t agree with the narrative. If fact nothing much does. It�s just a shooter now and the buyer needs to price it that way. But a sucker is born every day and someone might pay for ay too much. Just won�t be me.

I was thinking that several of those screw heads had already been tidied up, judging by the width of the slots. Just not "tidied up" enough to remove all of the damage. The poor fitting between some of the metal parts makes a strong argument for not sending out a vintage gun for case coloring. The garish colors are certainly vibrant, but they don't hide the washed-out engraving. I doubt the gun left the Holland shop that way originally, and kinda doubt they'd let it leave their shop that way after a 1992 redo.

I am wondering what that little dowel repair is in picture # 58? I don't know enough about Hollands to comment about a lot of things, but am curious if the detail around the keels at the muzzles is correct? The forend latch lever should probably close flush with its' housing. Some of the checkering is flat topped, so we can give the restorer partial credit. The barrel blacking looks uneven, and worse than my very first attempt at rust bluing. Maybe I could get a job as a blacker at Holland.

Say what you will about the seller, but they certainly provided enough photos to make a judgement about their optimistic description. Now we will see if excited auction bidders let their emotions over-rule their eyeballs.

The screws can't be made right, considering the width of the slots. The hand screw is especially bad. The hinge pin is a mess. I would insist on some paper on this gun, paper on every phase of the redo. The stock can be made 14" or better with a proper pad, if there is a proper pad of a gun of this era. How about those colors.

Aside from the poor quality 'restoration',,it's a bad example of what the name Holland & Holland would generally bring to most peoples mind.

The overall fit of the metal to metal is bad,,and you can't blame it all on re-CCH. Wood to metal fit is in the same zone in many places,,it is an H&H after all.

The engraving quality is fair at most. It doesn't even match from part to part in the scroll format.
The simple border as around the lock plates can be just that but it should be cut with precision just as well. Not a sloppy quick go around just to have something there.
The wedge of scroll on the bottom ahead of the trigger plate is way off center (Pic 61) the engraver tried to compensate for the right leaning pattern by adding a couple extra medium size scrolls to the pattern on the left side.

It all reminds me too much of a cheaper Birmingham gun or even a Belgian made gun.
The name changed and H&H added. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
Even Spanish guns have been made into 'real' H&H shotguns,,name, proofs and all of it.

The H&H name engraved on the lock plates isn't anything of quality lettering when view close up. A quick lettering job with tilted letters. A handy space in the pattern for it though.

The frame is not symetrical in shape in some areas. Most easily seen in the pic #29 where the top tang narrows right about at the point where the top lever ends. One side not nearly matching the other.
Maybe on a Belgian Beauty but I'd not expect it on a London.

The London proofs on the water table near the back by the standing breech. The proof marks themselves not quite looking like London strikes,,especially the Crown/GP.
The front end of the table clean of marks. But something appears in the blue streak on the right side in the pic72.
An old #, or marking?? or maybe a fuzz ball in the pic!

There was something, another mark or letter, under the 'S' in 'Tons' in pic #75. Two parallel bars nicely get hidden (almost) by the curves of the S.
Those bbl proofs look hokey to me anyway. There are lots of sets of Brit proof mark stamps around, just like everything else.

..But the firing pins are Gold Plated,,and the paper Label says what it is,,,so it must be a good one.

Just some things I see. Maybe I've just seen too much crap go on to believe anything is real anymore..


added,,The screws can be made right that's no problem. It's just standard work,, but did they have to tweak every last one of them

Jack Rowe once posed a question to me: "Hey Joe, do you know why the sun never sets on the British Empire"?

"No, Jack, why"?

"Simply because it doesn't trust them"!

You can�t even see the hand pin. The hand pin is underneath the trigger guard tang. The only part of the hand pin you can see is the end of it that�s filed flush with the rear of the top tang, hardly an indication that it�s a �mess�. The Breech pin is underneath the top lever/or top tang. That is called the breech pin.

I called Holland and Holland years ago about restoring a well used 8 Bore Holland double rifle. They would do the restoration EXCEPT they said that they NEVER redo the case colors. Too much chance of warping. Holland would never have left a gun in that condition leave their shop! IF that gun was redone by Hollands, what do you think it cost? New barrels and restoration over $20,000.00 I'll bet! Not done at Holland's shop!