doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Best Quality gun definition

Dang Monsieur, I sure thought the topic was about an H&H....haven't even looked at the for sale section. will take a glimpse.

24534 - Serial numbered in 1882. The label has "315 Oxford Street" and is a reproduction. Would be curious about the address on the rib - the gun was numbered a few months after the change-over in the numbering of Oxford Street (November 1881). Also would be curious M. LeFusil your assessment as to why it is not a "best gun" to use as a learning experience. Reilly made a real effort to dominate live pigeon shooting in the 1870's-80's.

There was a similar gun sold a couple of years ago in UK.. - here:
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24365
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em/hammer/12-gauge/pigeon-gun-180629095732002
Best Quality Hammer Pigeon gun with 31" black powder proof Whitworth steel barrels and flat file cut rib. The heavy action with side clips and low hammers. Very well figured stock expertly repaired at wrist. Extra long forend with anson push rod release. In original makers Leather case with trade label.



And a second here:
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23355
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24227/lot/462/?category=list
A 12-bore hammer pigeon gun by E.M. Reilly & Co., no. 23355
Toplever, rebounding backlocks, percussion-fences, best foliate scroll-engraving, traces of hardening-colour, the well-figured stock with chequered ebonite butt-plate, the damascus barrels with game-rib engraved E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Weight 8�lb., 14⅜in. pull (14⅛in. stock), 32in. barrels, approx. ⅝ & � choke, 3in. chambers, London nitro reproof

Best quality is not a check list to me. It is more about degree of finish along with design features than just a checklist thing. It's kind of like one of those things that you know recognize what it is when you see it.

That was always my impression Jon. This from a knowledgeable UK site which evaluated a Reilly: "The "Best" quality in a London gun came mainly from the final finishing which added a little to reliability and "feel" but most to beauty / elegance and pride of ownership.

But, but, but... that would require actually reading what has been posted so far. The conversation certainly referenced H&H guns, but the Reilly hammergun was mentioned in the original post. Of course, Argo could be excused if he was IGNORING bushveld's posts.

I kinda like KYJon's definition of Best gun, but would include use of the finest materials too. It's still subjective, and has become overused to the point of being nearly meaningless and impossible to define. Something like the best hinge pin lube, best Bourbon, or best bore cleaner. If Olympic athletes were judged like guns, there might be four or five swimmers or gymnasts on top of the podium getting gold medals.

Thanks Shelby. Reilly is no-where mentioned in that first post and so I missed it.

Bushveld goes back on his statements about best guns, and begins to qualify them according to the date they were built. This gun 24534 was manufactured in 1882 no matter what the advert says. I think Bushveld also makes a mistake by saying this gun was built in Birmingham. Sorry, it was built in London at 16 New Oxford Street or 277 Oxford Street. Old myths about Reilly not making his own guns die hard. Gene Williams

Prove Reilly made his own guns. Please. Not asking in a prick kind of way either, I�m asking because if you definitely, without a doubt can prove this...I will have been taught something new, and I�m 100% cool with that.

If you can, please show pictures of the factory. Name his head stocker. Who was Reilly�s actioner? Barrel borer? Show us a period article describing the Reilly gunworks and it�s day to day operation. Where did you come up with this empirical evidence that Reilly did in fact manufacture complete guns from scratch...other than very early percussion and pinfire guns? Cash books? Reilly�s cash books would show who the firm paid for actions, barrels, engraving, etc. Have any other gunmakers claimed to have apprenticed at Reilly�s and advertised that fact? Did Reilly�s build guns and parts during the two World Wars? Provide machine services making aircraft parts, etc? All of this would prove that Reilly�s did in fact have a factory and actually did gun building.

To answer your earlier inquiry. The Reilly in the for sale section is built on a basic Birmingham trade action with a snap forend. Best quality guns were not built on this type of action. It might carry London proofs, nothing out of the ordinary there, but it is extremely unlikely this gun was built in London and even more highly unlikely it ever was touched in the white at the E.M. Reilly store. A nice high quality gun it is, but it�s far from a best quality gun.

There are threads a-plenty, at least a decade or two�s worth, on this board arguing and discussing the virtues that make a best quality gun...look em up and educate yourself.

Argo, you could be excused for not connecting the dots if you didn't get to see the discussion in the For Sale section that was referenced in the last English-language paragraph in the original post. Of course, much of the "discussion" went away after the gun dealer who is selling it apparently cried to Dave to have it deleted when someone had the gall to hit back after his initial post referenced the "pecker gnats" he apparently finds so fascinating.

It does get hard to keep up with all the drama and action here if you tune out for a day or so.

By the way, the nomme de plume I bowwowed to prove a point for a short while was "Selby"... not Shelby. It doesn't matter I guess, because simpletons like Gladys Kravitz missed my simple point entirely, and thought I was being deceptive. Mental illness will do that.Imagine how confused and paranoid they are when they read your tag line!

Look at the proofs pictured by the gun dealer in the gun broker add...I believe the 3" chambers and reproof are not original to the gun as the pecker'nat gun dealer claims..

LeF. Here is a line on Reilly that will provide what you need on the firm. It's the best information available anywhere on Reilly: Reilly records do not exist and the firm's past can only be recreated from articles, advertisements, census data, serial numbered guns, etc.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538#Post436538

You are welcome to read the "New Short History of Reilly of London" posted on p.20.

On p. 18 is a compilation of evidence he built his own guns. He may have imported actions in the white from Birmingham...but he made the guns himself. I'll post one advertisement from 1861.

..........April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life." If Reilly wasn't making his own guns, he sure as heck couldn't have allowed gentlemen to "superintend the progress of their gun."



..........11 Jul 1861 "Volunteer's Service Gazette"

The 3" chambers likely will be original. However, it was no doubt originally proofed for black powder. It's been reproofed and possibly upgraded.

And actually Keith, I rather like the name "Shelby." Very old South.